Brunell ...

[skinsfan_n_vegas]

Sorry fellas, maybe this has already been discussed but, I needed to see what everyone's thoughts were on the whole Brunell to the Skins news and Ramsey not being a happy camper. IMO, with Jimmy Sexton representing both Ramsey and Samuels, he's not gonna be so quick to rework Samuels deal, to provide the Skins with much needed cap space, if the Skins don't trade Ramsey as he wishes. Is Ramsey really wanting out? I honestly don't know. I've just read what's on-line and it doesn't sound good. Are we (Skins) mortgaging the future for now by dealing Ramsey?

[Gmanc711]

If Jimmy Sexton dosent do somthing in the best interest of Chris Samuels ( I.e getting a good offer from us after two years of average to poor performance ) Then he is gonna get fired, straight up. Overall the only thing i needed to hear from Gibbs was that its an open competition, plus the way this contract is structured, I think it can only help the team.

[AnonEmouse]

Unless Ramsey holds out (stupid) Sexton can piss in the wind. Ramsey is under contract and can't 'demand' anything. I think this is just his agent getting pissed because he won't much out of Ramsey if he doesn't start this year.

Best thing Ramsey can do is outshine Brunell, have an all-pro year and then ask for a new contract next season.

Don't get me wrong, I like the kid and I think he may well be a future HOF, but he needs to produce a number of wins before he starts moaning.

[Scott]

Couldn't have said it better myself, at some point Ramsey is actually going to have to prove himself....nobody doubts that he is tough as nails and can take a hit, but he needs to prove he can win....have a Tom Brady like year and then maybe we can talk

[backrow]

This is for all! Ramsey is great, but at last count he doesn't own any SB rings! HOF Coach Gibbs does, and he makes the decisions. In fact, I don't believe Ramsey has a winning record. HOF Coach Gibbs is turning this team into his team quickly.

[Daseal]

Backrow, I think that's an unfair comparison. It was has second year last year and his first year starting. Do you expect a second year quarterback to have nothing left to learn in this league?

Also, how many rings does Brunell have? Yep. Same as Ramsey. Come up with something viable as analogy. Gibbs is a coach and has a whole lot more control over his destiny than a player. It's funny that most of the media and football experts laugh at the Redskins for this deal. At the combine the Redskin's QB coach (his name escapes me at the moment) talked to Phillip Rivers and told him how great would be for Brunell, Rivers rolled his eyes and just walked the other way.

A quarterback controversey is bad, whenever Ramsey got the time last year, he ate the other teams alive. There's no such thing as an open competition. I'm sure Gibbs already has a favorite and the veteran will always get the nod.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Just so you have a fuller picture, Jimmy Sexton ALSO represents Kleinsasser (the TE from the Vikings that the Skins supposedly want) AND he is the agent for a gentleman in Dallas named Parcells.

You can tell him to go piss in the wind if you like; but if you do, you are unlikely to get Kleinsasser and in a couple of years when Ramsey's contract is up for renewal (and Brunell is 36), you might be looking in the draft for a new guy to come in here. Jimmy Sexton is not someone you pick a fight with just to show how tough you are; even if you win the fight today, you could lose somewhere down the road.

[SkinsRock]

I am a big Ramsey supporter but I think it was a good deal. Gibbs specifically said that he wanted two starting-caliber QB's, including a veteran. Plus everyone on the team has to earn their job this year. Sexton needs to keep his mouth shut, but it worries me because if Ramsey wasn't behind his comments, they would have stopped by now. Who'd have thought that Gibbs first experience dealing with the "modern athlete" would be Ramsey???
As for Sexton representing Samuels and Kleinsasser, if he is such a good agent, he will do the best job for EACH of his clients individually.
By the way, it seems like for the number of players in the NFL, there are only a handful of agents...doesn't this seem not quite right?

[AnonEmouse]

Originally Posted by SkinsRock

As for Sexton representing Samuels and Kleinsasser, if he is such a good agent, he will do the best job for EACH of his clients individually.
By the way, it seems like for the number of players in the NFL, there are only a handful of agents...doesn't this seem not quite right?

1st part - definitely. He shouldn't be using one player to leverage anotehr et al. Doesn't stop him doing it mind...

2nd part - probably because agents get players to sign on based on rep. Many rookies look at the kind of players he already has on his books and the contracts they've gotten and that goes a long way to making their mind up. Also looking at the number of players in the league (compared to i.e. MLB), there are less players to go around.

[MTK]

Gibbs says it will be an open competition, so I believe him.

If Ramsey is clearly the better QB in camp, Gibbs will go with him regardless of how much Brunell is being paid. Gibbs is not going to make decisions based on paychecks.

I think it will be highly unlikely that Ramsey would beat him out though. Ramsey is headed into his 3rd season and will be learning another new offense. You have to give the edge to Brunell right now simply because of his experience. Ramsey will get his chance to play at some point and he needs to be ready. I really wish he would tell Sexton to shut the heck up. Gibbs is not going to deal him, he wants two quality QB's and he has them, so why would we want to give one of them up? Especially a QB with Ramsey's potential.

Ramsey needs to suck it up right now and keep in mind that he will get his chance to shine eventually, he just needs to be patient and take one for the team right now.

[Drkstar]

I know the time and history of the NFL was different but did or did not Steve Young and Joe Montana co-exist on the same roster? Young showed the patience necessary to serve in the back up role and get his too when his time came. I know Patrick stands to loose a shitload of money by not getting over 50% of the snaps this season but he should be pissed at his agent for that and not at Coach Gibbs. And it has been said before but bears repeating, Coach Gibbs will play the best QB available to him regardless of salary and I do believe that Ramsey will take snaps as the #1 guy in 2004 due to injury. If he unseats Brunnell based on performance from those snaps (alot like Tom Brady did to Drew Bledsoe) then this whole "feather ruffling" situation will be moot.

Joe Gibbs is a football genuis. He has thought this through and anyone who questions him on the QB situation should only do so in hindsight. Because as far as I am concerened, he has earned the right to be considered correct until proven wrong.

[AnonEmouse]

The only difference with Young and Montana is that Young was on a good contract. He also knew he'd get a good few years in SF with a good team around him after Joe left, and in the meantime had a great QB to learn from. The former isn't the case here, but the latter is definitely the case and what Ramsey should really be thinking about.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

The only difference with Young and Montana is that Young was on a good contract. He also knew he'd get a good few years in SF with a good team around him after Joe left, and in the meantime had a great QB to learn from. The former isn't the case here, but the latter is definitely the case and what Ramsey should really be thinking about.

I think we should be working out a new contract with Ramsey. Not a crazy one, but just somthing that show's him that he is our guy.

[Phinehas]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

I think we should be working out a new contract with Ramsey. Not a crazy one, but just somthing that show's him that he is our guy.

I agree. I think Ramsey is important enough to the future of the team to merrit the FO going the extra mile to make sure that he doesn't feel like we are taking advantage of him. Even if he hasn't won the starting job by default (contrary to what his agent might like everyone to believe), he has certainly shown he has much more talent, toughness, and heart than anyone recognized at the time of his original contract signing. So, while I wouldn't want to see the team suffer additional salary cap woes as a result, if we can somehow eek out enough cap space to throw him a bone, I think doing so would be a good idea.

This sort of deal might explain the mixed messages we keep getting from Sexton and Ramsey regarding Ramsey's desire for a trade. Sexton is talking about a trade to get leverage for some sort of contract renegotiation while Ramsey is reassuring the fans that he really does want to stay here in DC as a Redskin under Joe Gibbs.

At least, that's what I'm hoping.

--Phin

[sportscurmudgeon]

Drkstar:

You are absolutely correct about Ramsey's contract and the fact that he should honor it to the same extent the Redskins should honor it and have the paychecks delivered on time. I agree with you here.

Now just for fun, let me spin this from Ramesy's and Sexton's point of view:



Mr. Snyder, after you drafted my client with your first pick in the draft, you lowballed him and fiddled around so that we could not have a contract to get him into training camp on time. Remember, the NFL won't allow a player in camp without a contract so we weren't holding out; your stalling kept him out. You tried to trade my client to the Bears, but then you had a look at the sorry-armed QBs you had on the roster and decided you needed my client.

But the only way to get a deal done with you was to take incentive clauses and so we did. And we filled in for your team when needed in both of the last two years and took a beating for your team. And now, just when it looks like we might be able to cash in and collect some of the money in that incentive contract you demanded, you take that money and give it to a guy from Jax who has never done anything for this team.

You expect loyalty and full time commitment from your players. My client gives you that. But all you do is talk about commitment to my client. Every time it comes to forking over the "long green" you seem to be committed to something else.

Now, let's talk about a new deal for my client that is cap friendly but includes an nice signing bonus that he can put in the bank today. Remember, he will be a free agent in two more seasons and if he can't get a signing bonus OR some incentive money here, he will definitely be looking to get that somewhere else in 2 years...