USC Fans.

Daseal · 02-25-2004, 11:42 AM

I know a lot of people here are USC fans and a lot of people whined till they couldn't whine any more about Clarett. What do you think of Mike Williams, do you look down upon him now too?

cpayne5 · 02-25-2004, 04:27 PM

I'm not a USC fan, don't like the courts ruling on the NFL's policy, do not like the fact that Clarett bullied his way in, and do not look down upon Williams now. Williams is coming into the NFL because it is now allowable. Clarett is coming into the NFL because he screwed up his collegiate career and then pushed his way into the NFL. I respect Williams, but not Clarett.

Daseal · 02-25-2004, 04:29 PM

Which one of them has a National Championship, then look at who's collegic career is better!

cpayne5 · 02-25-2004, 04:35 PM

Collegiate careers aren't determined by Nat'l Championships. I was talking about the felonious activities that he engaged in, which ultimately got him suspended for the '03 season.

Gmanc711 · 02-25-2004, 04:45 PM

Umm, dasel, they both have national championships.

cpayne5 · 02-25-2004, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

Umm, dasel, they both have national championships.

Lol, good point.

itvnetop · 02-25-2004, 06:34 PM

USC is my alma mater and I'm not mad at Mike Williams one bit. I do believe this opens up the floodgates to a more diluted league in about 10 years, but you can't pin the problem down to Mike (or even Maurice).

The way our country was going, it was going to happen sooner or later.

The difference b/t Mike and Maurice is that Mike is physically ready to play in the L. Maurice is all potential right now. Mike has already accomplished what he needed to at USC- a National Championship (I don't give a rat's ass about LSU fans saying we didn't win), an Orange Bowl ring the year before, AP All American, soaring draft status.

Unlike Clarett, he's going in the first round- why pull a McGahee?

Daseal · 02-25-2004, 07:29 PM

LSU is the National Champion of college football, the BCS is broken, but LSU would have dismantled USC too. I don't see USC with a Nokia Sugar Bowl trophy which at the begining of the year was the most coveted trophy. I don't buy the whole why actually won poll!

Until they beat LSU, they are still #2.

EDIT: Here's the final poll put on ESPN's site:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankings

Notice how LSU is #1 and has more points. Accept defeat. USC received a total of 3 votes for 1st, according to this poll.

Cpayne showed me another poll that showed USC on top, and another showed Oklahoma... However after counting votes LSU got more, which makes them hands down the champion, in my opinion. I think we all can agree that the BCS is a horrible system. Shorten their season by a couple weeks and have a real playoff!

itvnetop · 02-25-2004, 07:36 PM

OK, the BCS had LSU number 1, the AP USC number 1... depending on who you're supporting (and it sounds as though you're a Tiger fan and I'm a Trojan fan), the argument stays the same.

But you talk to any knowledgeable fan in around the country, 90 percent say SC lays the smackdown on LSU last year if they played. Did you watch that farce of a game called the Sugar Bowl? Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. LSU has a great defense, but a mediocre offense. You can't compare the offense to USC's last year. And Oklahoma almost came back playing a really bad game against LSU! Also, USC wiped the floor with #4 Michigan in their game.

The coaches poll also had SC number one, but they are all obligated to vote BCS #1 as their number one. If it wasn't for that obligation, SC remains number #1 in both AP and coaches. How does number 1 go to number 2 after new year's after winning their game? Don't think that's ever happened in the history of college football.

But all this argument is what both fans did for almost an entire month- it's over and I totally agree with you re: a playoff system. BcS is a farce!

Daseal · 02-25-2004, 08:23 PM

They weren't #1 going into it or they would have been in the sugar bowl. I think LSU would have beaten them hands down. I'm not really an LSU fan, I just watched quite a few games last year, same with USC and I think that LSU has the talent to beat anyone. LSU was going against a pretty good defense but a horrible QB (Pity Heisman's suck!)

I still think LSU and USC should have had a playoff to end arguments, such as this one.

cpayne5 · 02-25-2004, 08:34 PM

USC was #1 in both the AP and ESPN polls going into the sugar bowl. They weren't #1 in the BCS rankings, which is the determining factor in who plays for the national championship.

Gmanc711 · 02-25-2004, 08:36 PM

I agree about the playoffs, but not to be techincal, he still has a national championship, they were recognized as national champions. I personally feell USC would have beaten LSU, they had alot more offenseive power than LSU, and although LSU's D was proboly slightly better, USC's was no sloutch on defense. The BSC sucks, thats the only thing I think we all agree on.

sportscurmudgeon · 02-25-2004, 09:13 PM

Daseal:

If I use your logic, Mark Rypien is a better QB than Dan Marino or Jim Kelly or Fran Tarkenton because he won a Super Bowl and they didn't. Sorry, if you believe that, you are really going to be an unhappy camper every time you visit the HoF because those three will be enshrined and Rypien will not.

Clarett is a good RB but not a great one. He reminds me more of ron Dayne than anyone else - same size, same running style but not as fast as Dayne who was a sprinter in HS. I would not take Clarett until the mid-rounds and now that he showed up at the combine not physically ready to work out, I'd drop him a round to about the 4th or 5th round. I'm beginning to smell a "headcase" here and I'd prefer not to have one more in the locker room.

Williams is a talent and has demonstrated a solid work ethic and he has yet to behave in such a way as to indicate that he is a pampered bonehead of an athlete. (For example, he has not filed a false police report to try to scam an insurance company while driving a car "loaned" to him by a booster.) I do not want the Redskins to take Williams because WR is not their area of need, but I suspect he will go a lot higher than Maruice Clarett and I suspect he will have a much bigger impact that Clarett.

azskinsfan2 · 02-25-2004, 09:31 PM

I agree with Cpayne that the only reason any of this started was because Maurice screwed up. If not he'd still be with O State. But why not open the gates to football players too. Basketball players can go pro out of high school. Personally I think its a huge difference though. Not many football players will make it going Pro even as Juniors. My Arizona Wildcats got beaten by both LSU and USC but in my opinion USC would have whipped LSU. We really need to get rid of the BCS and go to some kind of playoff system. At least take the top four and have them play each other for the national title. USC and LSU would have been a great game and a huge money maker. Why's the NCAA so against this?????

Gmanc711 · 02-25-2004, 09:52 PM

I say take all the conference winners, put them in a bracket and let them play. Obviously you would have to make sure everyone in the confrence played each other or there was a title game for the conference, but then if someone wants to complain, you can just say " Win your conference"

02-25-2004, 04:45 PM	#5
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 38 Posts: 7,506	Umm, dasel, they both have national championships. __________________ #21

02-25-2004, 07:29 PM	#8
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	LSU is the National Champion of college football, the BCS is broken, but LSU would have dismantled USC too. I don't see USC with a Nokia Sugar Bowl trophy which at the begining of the year was the most coveted trophy. I don't buy the whole why actually won poll! Until they beat LSU, they are still #2. EDIT: Here's the final poll put on ESPN's site: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankings Notice how LSU is #1 and has more points. Accept defeat. USC received a total of 3 votes for 1st, according to this poll. Cpayne showed me another poll that showed USC on top, and another showed Oklahoma... However after counting votes LSU got more, which makes them hands down the champion, in my opinion. I think we all can agree that the BCS is a horrible system. Shorten their season by a couple weeks and have a real playoff! Last edited by Daseal; 02-25-2004 at 07:36 PM.

02-25-2004, 08:34 PM	#11
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	USC was #1 in both the AP and ESPN polls going into the sugar bowl. They weren't #1 in the BCS rankings, which is the determining factor in who plays for the national championship. __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

02-25-2004, 08:36 PM	#12
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 38 Posts: 7,506	I agree about the playoffs, but not to be techincal, he still has a national championship, they were recognized as national champions. I personally feell USC would have beaten LSU, they had alot more offenseive power than LSU, and although LSU's D was proboly slightly better, USC's was no sloutch on defense. The BSC sucks, thats the only thing I think we all agree on. __________________ #21

02-25-2004, 09:13 PM	#13
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Daseal: If I use your logic, Mark Rypien is a better QB than Dan Marino or Jim Kelly or Fran Tarkenton because he won a Super Bowl and they didn't. Sorry, if you believe that, you are really going to be an unhappy camper every time you visit the HoF because those three will be enshrined and Rypien will not. Clarett is a good RB but not a great one. He reminds me more of ron Dayne than anyone else - same size, same running style but not as fast as Dayne who was a sprinter in HS. I would not take Clarett until the mid-rounds and now that he showed up at the combine not physically ready to work out, I'd drop him a round to about the 4th or 5th round. I'm beginning to smell a "headcase" here and I'd prefer not to have one more in the locker room. Williams is a talent and has demonstrated a solid work ethic and he has yet to behave in such a way as to indicate that he is a pampered bonehead of an athlete. (For example, he has not filed a false police report to try to scam an insurance company while driving a car "loaned" to him by a booster.) I do not want the Redskins to take Williams because WR is not their area of need, but I suspect he will go a lot higher than Maruice Clarett and I suspect he will have a much bigger impact that Clarett. __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

02-25-2004, 11:42 AM	#1
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	USC Fans. I know a lot of people here are USC fans and a lot of people whined till they couldn't whine any more about Clarett. What do you think of Mike Williams, do you look down upon him now too?

02-25-2004, 04:27 PM	#2
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	I'm not a USC fan, don't like the courts ruling on the NFL's policy, do not like the fact that Clarett bullied his way in, and do not look down upon Williams now. Williams is coming into the NFL because it is now allowable. Clarett is coming into the NFL because he screwed up his collegiate career and then pushed his way into the NFL. I respect Williams, but not Clarett.

02-25-2004, 04:29 PM	#3
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Which one of them has a National Championship, then look at who's collegic career is better!

02-25-2004, 04:35 PM	#4
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	Collegiate careers aren't determined by Nat'l Championships. I was talking about the felonious activities that he engaged in, which ultimately got him suspended for the '03 season.

02-25-2004, 06:34 PM	#7
itvnetop Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 47 Posts: 3,007	USC is my alma mater and I'm not mad at Mike Williams one bit. I do believe this opens up the floodgates to a more diluted league in about 10 years, but you can't pin the problem down to Mike (or even Maurice). The way our country was going, it was going to happen sooner or later. The difference b/t Mike and Maurice is that Mike is physically ready to play in the L. Maurice is all potential right now. Mike has already accomplished what he needed to at USC- a National Championship (I don't give a rat's ass about LSU fans saying we didn't win), an Orange Bowl ring the year before, AP All American, soaring draft status. Unlike Clarett, he's going in the first round- why pull a McGahee?

02-25-2004, 07:36 PM	#9
itvnetop Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 47 Posts: 3,007	OK, the BCS had LSU number 1, the AP USC number 1... depending on who you're supporting (and it sounds as though you're a Tiger fan and I'm a Trojan fan), the argument stays the same. But you talk to any knowledgeable fan in around the country, 90 percent say SC lays the smackdown on LSU last year if they played. Did you watch that farce of a game called the Sugar Bowl? Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. LSU has a great defense, but a mediocre offense. You can't compare the offense to USC's last year. And Oklahoma almost came back playing a really bad game against LSU! Also, USC wiped the floor with #4 Michigan in their game. The coaches poll also had SC number one, but they are all obligated to vote BCS #1 as their number one. If it wasn't for that obligation, SC remains number #1 in both AP and coaches. How does number 1 go to number 2 after new year's after winning their game? Don't think that's ever happened in the history of college football. But all this argument is what both fans did for almost an entire month- it's over and I totally agree with you re: a playoff system. BcS is a farce!

02-25-2004, 08:23 PM	#10
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	They weren't #1 going into it or they would have been in the sugar bowl. I think LSU would have beaten them hands down. I'm not really an LSU fan, I just watched quite a few games last year, same with USC and I think that LSU has the talent to beat anyone. LSU was going against a pretty good defense but a horrible QB (Pity Heisman's suck!) I still think LSU and USC should have had a playoff to end arguments, such as this one.

02-25-2004, 09:31 PM	#14
azskinsfan2 Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tucson, Arizona Age: 67 Posts: 232	I agree with Cpayne that the only reason any of this started was because Maurice screwed up. If not he'd still be with O State. But why not open the gates to football players too. Basketball players can go pro out of high school. Personally I think its a huge difference though. Not many football players will make it going Pro even as Juniors. My Arizona Wildcats got beaten by both LSU and USC but in my opinion USC would have whipped LSU. We really need to get rid of the BCS and go to some kind of playoff system. At least take the top four and have them play each other for the national title. USC and LSU would have been a great game and a huge money maker. Why's the NCAA so against this?????

02-25-2004, 09:52 PM	#15
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 38 Posts: 7,506	I say take all the conference winners, put them in a bracket and let them play. Obviously you would have to make sure everyone in the confrence played each other or there was a title game for the conference, but then if someone wants to complain, you can just say " Win your conference" __________________ #21

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