What would you do if this was your son?

[mlmpetert]

My mom called last night so I asked her why she let me go as a witch for halloween. I was actually in preschool and was 3, almost 4, at the time. She said that leading up to Halloween all the books that were read to me had lots of witches in them and the witches in kids books are usually the scariest or evilest character (shes a elementary school teacher and says this is still mostly true). She said when I first told her I wanted to be a witch she tried to explain to me that boys are not witches but I wasn’t able to understand, and just wanted to be what I thought was the scariest thing you could be. For about a week she tried to trick me into being other things including a warlock (the male equivalent of a witch), by reading books and showing me pictures of warlocks but I wasn’t having it.

Finally she gave in and got me a witches nose, hat and most embarrassingly witch nails and a petite black dress (with sleeves) from goodwill that she cut to make shorter. She said that the whole time she questioned herself by allowing me to be a witch, but decided that if that’s what I wanted to be she would at least make me a the best witch costume she could make. She also said she always felt bad for the kids who were forced to go as something that the kid didn’t want to be, but that the mom thought looked cute. She did however mention that I made a very cute witch, and will try and find some pics for me. She adamantly thinks halloween is for allowing kids to pretend to be whatever they want to be.

I guess I went to a big preschool because we had a Halloween parade where all the kids took turns going to each classroom to show off their costumes. This was also a hard part for her because she didn’t know what other people would think, or if the older kids would make fun of me. She said a couple teachers and parents did a double take when they first saw me but everyone acted normal after their first look and even commented on how good my costume was. She said a lot of the kids really liked my costume and none of them thought anything unusual of it including my brother who was about 2 years older…... until years later.

She even brought up, what I think was the original article in this thread, about a boy she saw on the news last year that dressed up as a girl for halloween. She thought that the cases were a little different because while a witch is a feminine character the reasoning why I or other kids may want to be a witch is because its scary. The boy who dressed up as the girl from Scooby doo wasn’t doing it to be scary, rather, he just liked that character. He was also older and seemed to understand the peculiarness of the decision to some extent. Either way my mom is about as liberal/progressive as it gets and now jokingly takes credit for starting this stuff. For reference this would have been in 1986. So that’s my experience as a cross dresser……..

I think there are 2 clear sides when it comes to allowing your kid to be transvestite/transgender and that theres not much room for either side to give way on their point of view. While I think parents should be supportive of most of their child’s endeavors I think parenting is more about providing guidance then encouraging your child to do whatever it is he wants. Im not a parent (which pretty much makes my opinion invalid on this issue) but while I would allow my hypothetical son be pretend or aspire to be a cowboy, army man, ninja, or even witch for a evening I wouldn’t let him be a cowboy, army man, ninja or girl year round. Im sure most little boys would be down for dressing up like a ninja year round just like most girls would be okay if her mom let her dress up as a princess all year. I don’t think allowing or encouraging your kid to do what they feel like is constructive. They arnt adults.

So it stays the same for me if your son wants to be a girl not just for pretend but in real life, in my mind hes not old enough to make that decision. Enabling him to think hes a girl by treating him like one prior to maturity is a severe form of child abuse in my opinion. What if your kid really wants to be a dog because you have pets in your home. Should you let him sleep in a crate, play with tennis balls, wear a collar and join Dog Scouts. No matter how much a little boy wants to be a dog or a girl they are not and shouldn’t be allowed to be. If they grow up and still feel that way then as an adult they can make the decision to get a sex change or change their name to Boomer The Dog. And if your kid decides when their a teenager that they just dont want to ever grow up then thats fine too. Society is now this permanent baby's parent. So just like the mom who allows her little boy to think hes a girl, we should allow and financial enable our permanent baby to do and be what ever he wants.......

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

My mom called last night so I asked her why she let me go as a witch for halloween. I was actually in preschool and was 3, almost 4, at the time. She said that leading up to Halloween all the books that were read to me had lots of witches in them and the witches in kids books are usually the scariest or evilest character (shes a elementary school teacher and says this is still mostly true). She said when I first told her I wanted to be a witch she tried to explain to me that boys are not witches but I wasn’t able to understand, and just wanted to be what I thought was the scariest thing you could be. For about a week she tried to trick me into being other things including a warlock (the male equivalent of a witch), by reading books and showing me pictures of warlocks but I wasn’t having it.

Finally she gave in and got me a witches nose, hat and most embarrassingly witch nails and a petite black dress (with sleeves) from goodwill that she cut to make shorter. She said that the whole time she questioned herself by allowing me to be a witch, but decided that if that’s what I wanted to be she would at least make me a the best witch costume she could make. She also said she always felt bad for the kids who were forced to go as something that the kid didn’t want to be, but that the mom thought looked cute. She did however mention that I made a very cute witch, and will try and find some pics for me. She adamantly thinks halloween is for allowing kids to pretend to be whatever they want to be.

I guess I went to a big preschool because we had a Halloween parade where all the kids took turns going to each classroom to show off their costumes. This was also a hard part for her because she didn’t know what other people would think, or if the older kids would make fun of me. She said a couple teachers and parents did a double take when they first saw me but everyone acted normal after their first look and even commented on how good my costume was. She said a lot of the kids really liked my costume and none of them thought anything unusual of it including my brother who was about 2 years older…... until years later.

She even brought up, what I think was the original article in this thread, about a boy she saw on the news last year that dressed up as a girl for halloween. She thought that the cases were a little different because while a witch is a feminine character the reasoning why I or other kids may want to be a witch is because its scary. The boy who dressed up as the girl from Scooby doo wasn’t doing it to be scary, rather, he just liked that character. He was also older and seemed to understand the peculiarness of the decision to some extent. Either way my mom is about as liberal/progressive as it gets and now jokingly takes credit for starting this stuff. For reference this would have been in 1986. So that’s my experience as a cross dresser……..

I think there are 2 clear sides when it comes to allowing your kid to be transvestite/transgender and that theres not much room for either side to give way on their point of view. While I think parents should be supportive of most of their child’s endeavors I think parenting is more about providing guidance then encouraging your child to do whatever it is he wants. Im not a parent (which pretty much makes my opinion invalid on this issue) but while I would allow my hypothetical son be pretend or aspire to be a cowboy, army man, ninja, or even witch for a evening I wouldn’t let him be a cowboy, army man, ninja or girl year round. Im sure most little boys would be down for dressing up like a ninja year round just like most girls would be okay if her mom let her dress up as a princess all year. I don’t think allowing or encouraging your kid to do what they feel like is constructive. They arnt adults.

So it stays the same for me if your son wants to be a girl not just for pretend but in real life, in my mind hes not old enough to make that decision. Enabling him to think hes a girl by treating him like one prior to maturity is a severe form of child abuse in my opinion. What if your kid really wants to be a dog because you have pets in your home. Should you let him sleep in a crate, play with tennis balls, wear a collar and join Dog Scouts. No matter how much a little boy wants to be a dog or a girl they are not and shouldn’t be allowed to be. If they grow up and still feel that way then as an adult they can make the decision to get a sex change or change their name to Boomer The Dog. And if your kid decides when their a teenager that they just dont want to ever grow up then thats fine too. Society is now this permanent baby's parent. So just like the mom who allows her little boy to think hes a girl, we should allow and financial enable our permanent baby to do and be what ever he wants.......

That line of thinking is the same as people who say, "well if we let the gays get married, we might as well let beastiality be legal".

Most children don't want to be dogs. Kids are at that stage where they are beginning to explore who they are and there's nothing wrong with that so long as theirs structure. I mean, most kids start getting a feel for what they're into sexually speaking, by 13 or 14, I mean hell, at least I did.

I'm just against the mother pushing her desires on her son. If this is 100% the kid, under his own power, exploring his gender, I find nothing wrong with it, so long as the mother explains to him how the world is and people won't be so accepting. I mean he's not hurting anyone but himself (if that). I do wish that the mother had set a gender construct for him to work from rather than just setting him off free into the world letting him choose. You gotta parent your kid a little.

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[DynamiteRave]

You know... I'm thinking he'll probably grow out of this. Kids would crucify him in middle school. He's 7 not 17. That is unless the mothers pressuring him. They need to have the kid talk to a psychiatrist, they'd know if the kid really thought he was a girl or if the mother brainwashed him into thinking that.

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[firstdown]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

You know... I'm thinking he'll probably grow out of this. Kids would crucify him in middle school. He's 7 not 17. That is unless the mothers pressuring him. They need to have the kid talk to a psychiatrist, they'd know if the kid really thought he was a girl or if the mother brainwashed him into thinking that.

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I'm no psychiatrist and know this is the mom's doing just by the way she looks and talks. He husband problbly dumped her for another women and now she hates men so she is changing their son into a girl.

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[mlmpetert]

In addition to going as witch for Halloween as a preschooler im techniqely a minister or revered (I forget) and personally married mlmdub and his wife, so I have unique perspective….. and feel compelled to share it…

For the record my gay marriage views are complicated (primarily tax related), but for the most part you could say that im all for same sex marriage between consenting adults, but I think the bestiality argument is a moot point for you to raise as a comparison because it’s a moot point for anti-gay marriage crusaders. Animals do not and should not have the same rights as humans and they dont have the ability to consent or not-consent.

My issue is that a 7 year old boy is unable to make a informed decision to decide to become a girl, dog, ninja or anything else. If the parent allows their child to make that decision and act on it, then its abuse. This is different than a parent allowing their son to pretend to be a girl, dog or ninja while pretend playing or going trick or treating. You said kids don’t understand what they like sexually until their 13 or 14 and I completely agree. But prior to physical maturity its child abuse to allow a child to think they are a different sex then what they are.

At physical maturity it because a grey issue, because youre still mentally immature. I don’t believe parents should openly allow their adolescent 13 or 14 year to have sex (gay or straight) with another 13 or 14 year in their house because regardless of how that kid may feel we all know a person that adolescents are still mentally immature. We also all know that its likely going to happen anyways but endorsing it is the issue. The exact same holds true, imo, for allowing your adolescent to openly explore being a transvestite. For teenagers I don’t know if I necessarily consider a parent allowing their kid to openly have sex (gay or straight) or cross-dress abuse, but for a child under 13 I absolutely believe it’s abuse. So depending on the age you could say theres a difference between abuse and just bad parenting.

Once a fully mature adult, he should be free to openly express himself any way he/she wants.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I'm no psychiatrist and know this is the mom's doing just by the way she looks and talks. He husband problbly dumped her for another women and now she hates men so she is changing their son into a girl.

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hot dang!

[Alvin Walton]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

You know... I'm thinking he'll probably grow out of this. Kids would crucify him in middle school. He's 7 not 17. That is unless the mothers pressuring him. They need to have the kid talk to a psychiatrist, they'd know if the kid really thought he was a girl or if the mother brainwashed him into thinking that.

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Yep, he'll/she'll be a basket case by the time he/she's halfway thru high school.
The other kids will make her/his life a living hell.

[mredskins]

Follow up to the original story in this thread. The boy went as Indiana Jones this year.

Lessons From a Halloween Costume - NYTimes.com