Haskins released

Warthog · 12-29-2020, 02:07 AM

The release of Haskins frees Rivera to either draft for a franchise QB and/or pick up a very good QB in FA.

I just don’t see Rivera going with the FA route. He already has Alex Smith as the bridge to starting the franchise QB draft pick . Alex mentors the new QB and maybe even starts a few games next season.

The NFL QB situation has changed. QB need to be able to run - gaining 50-100 yards a game with runs, and another 200-300 yds with passing. The QB running ability is putting defenses on their heals. Better to get a rookie who has the running AND passing ability - who can be coached up and mentored by Alex Smith. Smith is a decent passer but his running ability is near zero now.

If Rivera views his future as 5-10 years as HC here, why go for a FA QB who might only last a couple years? Draft the franchise QB and use FA to fill obvious holes on the team.

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CRedskinsRule · 12-29-2020, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Nice breakdown of Heinecken's game yesterday

https://youtu.be/Z2zg8UCe5B8

What a good review. Loved the multiple angles, and commentary.

AnonEmouse · 12-29-2020, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warthog

The release of Haskins frees Rivera to either draft for a franchise QB and/or pick up a very good QB in FA.

I just don’t see Rivera going with the FA route. He already has Alex Smith as the bridge to starting the franchise QB draft pick . Alex mentors the new QB and maybe even starts a few games next season.

The NFL QB situation has changed. QB need to be able to run - gaining 50-100 yards a game with runs, and another 200-300 yds with passing. The QB running ability is putting defenses on their heals. Better to get a rookie who has the running AND passing ability - who can be coached up and mentored by Alex Smith. Smith is a decent passer but his running ability is near zero now.

If Rivera views his future as 5-10 years as HC here, why go for a FA QB who might only last a couple years? Draft the franchise QB and use FA to fill obvious holes on the team.

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Agreed but what if we do win the division, and maybe even a playoff game? Are we really likely to get a franchise QB in the bottom half of round 1? Do we get forced into trading up and giving up capital for other holes, or (imho) take BPA and hope a good QB development prospect falls to us in rd 2 or 3? I'd still keep the possibility of an FA QB on the table at least until we see what the draft allows us to pick up.

SolidSnake84 · 12-29-2020, 07:47 AM

Jeff George and Mark Brunell were my absolute favorite QB's here when I was a kid.

Brunell was hurt most of 2004, his elbow wasn't 100% recovered, and he got a horrible calf injury that limited him in most games. He played much better in 2005, but I think he was a scapegoat in 2006 for how horrible the offense was.

I was a Jeff George fan because one of my best friends in middle school was a raiders fan, he was constantly gushing about how great Jeff George was and how he could throw the longest passes. We were so excited when George became a Redskin player. I just think that the offense didn't suit George. To this day he has the most amazing arm of anyone I have ever watched. Only guy who I think had a bigger arm was Jamarcus. There is a video of George out there from about 10 years ago doing a public workout. He was 43 but still had an absolute rifle for an arm....

MTK · 12-29-2020, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

Jeff George and Mark Brunell were my absolute favorite QB's here when I was a kid.

Brunell was hurt most of 2004, his elbow wasn't 100% recovered, and he got a horrible calf injury that limited him in most games. He played much better in 2005, but I think he was a scapegoat in 2006 for how horrible the offense was.

I was a Jeff George fan because one of my best friends in middle school was a raiders fan, he was constantly gushing about how great Jeff George was and how he could throw the longest passes. We were so excited when George became a Redskin player. I just think that the offense didn't suit George. To this day he has the most amazing arm of anyone I have ever watched. Only guy who I think had a bigger arm was Jamarcus. There is a video of George out there from about 10 years ago doing a public workout. He was 43 but still had an absolute rifle for an arm....

Feel bad for you my man if George was a childhood favorite. I get the arm thing but he had a personality of a wet mop and once famously said that leadership was overrated from the QB position.

Doesn't this situation sound familiar? A new coach handcuffed by the owner's dumb move at QB?

KI Skins Fan · 12-29-2020, 10:00 AM

It's time to forget about Haskins. I'm not talking about the fans. We can still talk about him all we want but the WFT players need to flush all the Haskins drama from their minds immediately and focus exclusively on the upcoming Eagles game.

We haven't had a more important game to play in many years. This one is truly a must win game for any player or coach who gives a dam about football. With that said and with Haskins gone and forgotten, at least for this week, the rest of the team needs to focus on the fact that they didn't play well either versus Carolina.

We can't blame Haskins if we lose this week. Forget about Haskins' character flaws. This is a defining test of the character of the players who remain. I think the Eagles are dangerous opponents who will play to win. We had better be ready.

Win and we're in the playoffs. Lose and we're out. This is the last chance to achieve a major goal. No excuses.

Warthog · 12-29-2020, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

Agreed but what if we do win the division, and maybe even a playoff game? Are we really likely to get a franchise QB in the bottom half of round 1? Do we get forced into trading up and giving up capital for other holes, or (imho) take BPA and hope a good QB development prospect falls to us in rd 2 or 3? I'd still keep the possibility of an FA QB on the table at least until we see what the draft allows us to pick up.

For this season:
Play Alex Smith first but if he is not available then go to:

Plan B - Heinickle. He looked very good for his 9 minutes of play and I think he would be a decent substitute if Alex is still hurt. Obviously his play could have been a fluke, but frankly, I’d like to see more of him if Smith needs another week to recover.

Next Season: if the team wants to DRAFT a franchise hopeful QB, then they’ll need to TRADE UP. I’m NOT suggesting an RG3 Type deal to get to the second pick in the draft. I think you trade up to get to the third or fourth QB available. Maybe from 19th pick to 10th? Obviously a lot will depend on who Rivera likes at QB, and how many teams are looking for QB ahead of us in the draft.

My problem with going for a FA QB is the money issue. If you want someone like Dax, you’re going to have to commit to a
MASSIVE and long QB contract. He’s your man for better or worse. Do you get a Drew Breese type deal where he leads your team to victory over many seasons OR is it a Wentz-type situation with the Eagles, where they are committed to him and now are in the WORST Cap situation in the NFL next season.

Getting a high QB in the draft means he can be mentored by Alex Smith. He can be brought into Turners offense. I believe the Coaches & Scouts of the WFT can get us a franchise-level QB as long as SNYDER STAYS OUT OF IT.
Both Haskins and RG3 can be laid at the feet of Snyder.

Obviously, if Rivera wants a certain FA QB, then he has the cap money and power to get him. However, Rivera has built up the cap cash to the level that he can spread it to fill more than a few holes in the offense (WR, TE, OL) with very good FA. I believe his plan is to draft for the big holes and then fill in the rest with FA. But with just one FA QB signing Rivera could blow my theory right out of the water!!

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Warthog · 12-29-2020, 10:19 AM

[QUOTE=AnonEmouse;1270806]Agreed but what if we do win the division, and maybe even a playoff game? Are we really likely to get a franchise QB in the bottom half of round 1? Do we get forced into trading up and giving up capital for other holes, or (imho) take BPA and hope a good QB development prospect falls to us in rd 2 or 3? I'd still keep the possibility of an FA QB on the table at least until we see what the draft allows us to pick up.[/

This season: Plan A - use Alex Smith as the starting QB, if he is ready.

Plan B: Heinickle at QB. He looked good for the 9 minutes he played. I’d like to see more from him IF Smith isn’t ready. Heinickle my be a flash in the pan, but he might be a valuable backup QB next year. He’s certainly a smart guy but we need to see if that helps him on the field.

Next season: the problem with going for a FA QB is that it could be very, very expensive. Dax wants a big, long-term contract. Not sure about Stafford. What situation do you end up with: the Drew Brees scenario where he leads your team to victory for the rest of his career OR do you end up with a Carson Wentz disaster. The Eagles have the WORST cap situation in the NFL in 2021. Trying to buy your way out of the Wentz deal is something like a $59 million cap hit!!!

If you go with the draft idea, I’m NOT Suggesting an RG3 type deal to get all the way up to the second spot in the draft. Maybe go from 19th to 9th to get the third or fourth draft pick Qb(?). It may not be possible because you have to like several mid-range QB and you have to figure correctly what teams want QB ahead of you. But with a QB picked in the #8-10 range, you don’t lose too much for the trade. Then the Qb can be mentored by Alex Smith and helped by using your very good cap money to get excellent WR and/or TE and/or OL.

The wild card is Dan Snyder. The Haskins and RG3 draft disasters can be laid directly at HIS FEET. I think Rivera & Kyle Smith and the scouts can choose an excellent QB in the draft, as long as Snyder stays out of it!

A lot of moving parts but it appears that Rivera can get a excellent QB in the draft, without trading away a boatload of future picks. He can also get the FA QB he wants, but it may cost the team their cap future.

mredskins · 12-29-2020, 10:19 AM

I think bringing in Matt Stafford is not a horrible idea.

MTK · 12-29-2020, 10:24 AM

If the likes of Matt Ryan, Stafford, or Dak become available, hell yes you make a big push for any of those guys. With a legit QB and some more weapons this team is ready to make a SB push.

Chico23231 · 12-29-2020, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mredskins

I think bringing in Matt Stafford is not a horrible idea.

Probably 10 other teams would say the same thing. Of course, Alex and the contract would have to come off the books and the first round pick, maybe a player.

Would you be ok depart with Montez or Payne along with this years first round pick and booting Alex Smith? That would be the starting floor imo.

I would

Warthog · 12-29-2020, 11:12 AM

We’re competing with 5-8 teams for the available QB FA or via drafting a QB in the first round. On the one hand we have an excellent cap situation and we’re a team “on the rise”. If we go with a Stafford or Dax FA pickup, there’s not much sense in keeping Alex Smith with a healthy and cheap Heinickle and/or Allen as the backups.

Draft-wise we are NOT in a position to get a quality QB unless we trade up. As a minimum we’ll need to trade the first and second round picks (2021) to move up. It may cost much more if we want to get the second or third Qb draft picks.

I can go with either the FA or draft to get our franchise QB, as long as Snyder is not influencing either choice. Snyder’s record as a talent scout is absolutely DISMAL. He’s made some of the worst choices in the draft over the last decade. If it is possible, he’s made even worse decisions in FA in search of a QB.

Maybe if the football god’s are working in our favor, Snyder might have other things to worry about next spring! Lol.

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skinsfan69 · 12-29-2020, 11:19 AM

Draft a guy and play him. That is the way to go. QB on rookie deal. See Russell Wilson, Mahomes and now Josh Allen. Try and get in a 3 year window where you aren't paying your QB big dollars.

We won't be able to afford Stafford, plus he is starting to get banged up so I would pass for those two reasons.

The league is changing. Guys like Matt Ryan will be extinct in 5 years. You need a duel threat guy.

I'm trying to trade up in the draft. Offer Payne or Allen and the 1st rounder. I'd go all in for the kid at BYU.

skinsfaninok · 12-29-2020, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTK

If the likes of Matt Ryan, Stafford, or Dak become available, hell yes you make a big push for any of those guys. With a legit QB and some more weapons this team is ready to make a SB push.

Agree 100% and I hope one comes to us

skinsfaninok · 12-29-2020, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Draft a guy and play him. That is the way to go. QB on rookie deal. See Russell Wilson, Mahomes and now Josh Allen. Try and get in a 3 year window where you aren't paying your QB big dollars.

We won't be able to afford Stafford, plus he is starting to get banged up so I would pass for those two reasons.

The league is changing. Guys like Matt Ryan will be extinct in 5 years. You need a duel threat guy.

I'm trying to trade up in the draft. Offer Payne or Allen and the 1st rounder. I'd go all in for the kid at BYU.

The Niners are rumored to be all in on Zach Wilson. He’ll be a top 10 pick, I don’t see anyone accepting a DT and our 19th for a QB. The more realistic option at 19 will be Mac Jones or Kyle Trask , I’d rather have Matt Ryan or Matt Stafford for the next 2-3 years

12-29-2020, 02:07 AM	#106
Warthog The Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Doylestown, PA Posts: 1,253	Haskins released The release of Haskins frees Rivera to either draft for a franchise QB and/or pick up a very good QB in FA. I just don’t see Rivera going with the FA route. He already has Alex Smith as the bridge to starting the franchise QB draft pick . Alex mentors the new QB and maybe even starts a few games next season. The NFL QB situation has changed. QB need to be able to run - gaining 50-100 yards a game with runs, and another 200-300 yds with passing. The QB running ability is putting defenses on their heals. Better to get a rookie who has the running AND passing ability - who can be coached up and mentored by Alex Smith. Smith is a decent passer but his running ability is near zero now. If Rivera views his future as 5-10 years as HC here, why go for a FA QB who might only last a couple years? Draft the franchise QB and use FA to fill obvious holes on the team. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Four Combat Tours in Afghanistan, Iraq and Kuwait. Flyboy. "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave"

12-29-2020, 07:47 AM	#109
SolidSnake84 Playmaker Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Stephens City, VA Posts: 2,947	Re: Haskins released Jeff George and Mark Brunell were my absolute favorite QB's here when I was a kid. Brunell was hurt most of 2004, his elbow wasn't 100% recovered, and he got a horrible calf injury that limited him in most games. He played much better in 2005, but I think he was a scapegoat in 2006 for how horrible the offense was. I was a Jeff George fan because one of my best friends in middle school was a raiders fan, he was constantly gushing about how great Jeff George was and how he could throw the longest passes. We were so excited when George became a Redskin player. I just think that the offense didn't suit George. To this day he has the most amazing arm of anyone I have ever watched. Only guy who I think had a bigger arm was Jamarcus. There is a video of George out there from about 10 years ago doing a public workout. He was 43 but still had an absolute rifle for an arm.... __________________ Time to nut up or shut up

12-29-2020, 10:00 AM	#111
KI Skins Fan Pro Bowl Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Jacksonville, Forida Posts: 6,368	Re: Haskins released It's time to forget about Haskins. I'm not talking about the fans. We can still talk about him all we want but the WFT players need to flush all the Haskins drama from their minds immediately and focus exclusively on the upcoming Eagles game. We haven't had a more important game to play in many years. This one is truly a must win game for any player or coach who gives a dam about football. With that said and with Haskins gone and forgotten, at least for this week, the rest of the team needs to focus on the fact that they didn't play well either versus Carolina. We can't blame Haskins if we lose this week. Forget about Haskins' character flaws. This is a defining test of the character of the players who remain. I think the Eagles are dangerous opponents who will play to win. We had better be ready. Win and we're in the playoffs. Lose and we're out. This is the last chance to achieve a major goal. No excuses.

12-29-2020, 10:19 AM	#113
Warthog The Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Doylestown, PA Posts: 1,253	Haskins released [QUOTE=AnonEmouse;1270806]Agreed but what if we do win the division, and maybe even a playoff game? Are we really likely to get a franchise QB in the bottom half of round 1? Do we get forced into trading up and giving up capital for other holes, or (imho) take BPA and hope a good QB development prospect falls to us in rd 2 or 3? I'd still keep the possibility of an FA QB on the table at least until we see what the draft allows us to pick up.[/ This season: Plan A - use Alex Smith as the starting QB, if he is ready. Plan B: Heinickle at QB. He looked good for the 9 minutes he played. I’d like to see more from him IF Smith isn’t ready. Heinickle my be a flash in the pan, but he might be a valuable backup QB next year. He’s certainly a smart guy but we need to see if that helps him on the field. Next season: the problem with going for a FA QB is that it could be very, very expensive. Dax wants a big, long-term contract. Not sure about Stafford. What situation do you end up with: the Drew Brees scenario where he leads your team to victory for the rest of his career OR do you end up with a Carson Wentz disaster. The Eagles have the WORST cap situation in the NFL in 2021. Trying to buy your way out of the Wentz deal is something like a $59 million cap hit!!! If you go with the draft idea, I’m NOT Suggesting an RG3 type deal to get all the way up to the second spot in the draft. Maybe go from 19th to 9th to get the third or fourth draft pick Qb(?). It may not be possible because you have to like several mid-range QB and you have to figure correctly what teams want QB ahead of you. But with a QB picked in the #8-10 range, you don’t lose too much for the trade. Then the Qb can be mentored by Alex Smith and helped by using your very good cap money to get excellent WR and/or TE and/or OL. The wild card is Dan Snyder. The Haskins and RG3 draft disasters can be laid directly at HIS FEET. I think Rivera & Kyle Smith and the scouts can choose an excellent QB in the draft, as long as Snyder stays out of it! A lot of moving parts but it appears that Rivera can get a excellent QB in the draft, without trading away a boatload of future picks. He can also get the FA QB he wants, but it may cost the team their cap future. __________________ Four Combat Tours in Afghanistan, Iraq and Kuwait. Flyboy. "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" Last edited by Warthog; 12-29-2020 at 10:46 AM.

12-29-2020, 10:19 AM	#114
mredskins Gamebreaker Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,660	Re: Haskins released I think bringing in Matt Stafford is not a horrible idea. __________________ When life gives you paper jams, turn them into paper footballs!

12-29-2020, 10:24 AM	#115
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 51 Posts: 99,411	Re: Haskins released If the likes of Matt Ryan, Stafford, or Dak become available, hell yes you make a big push for any of those guys. With a legit QB and some more weapons this team is ready to make a SB push. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

12-29-2020, 11:12 AM	#117
Warthog The Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Doylestown, PA Posts: 1,253	Haskins released We’re competing with 5-8 teams for the available QB FA or via drafting a QB in the first round. On the one hand we have an excellent cap situation and we’re a team “on the rise”. If we go with a Stafford or Dax FA pickup, there’s not much sense in keeping Alex Smith with a healthy and cheap Heinickle and/or Allen as the backups. Draft-wise we are NOT in a position to get a quality QB unless we trade up. As a minimum we’ll need to trade the first and second round picks (2021) to move up. It may cost much more if we want to get the second or third Qb draft picks. I can go with either the FA or draft to get our franchise QB, as long as Snyder is not influencing either choice. Snyder’s record as a talent scout is absolutely DISMAL. He’s made some of the worst choices in the draft over the last decade. If it is possible, he’s made even worse decisions in FA in search of a QB. Maybe if the football god’s are working in our favor, Snyder might have other things to worry about next spring! Lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Four Combat Tours in Afghanistan, Iraq and Kuwait. Flyboy. "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave"

12-29-2020, 11:19 AM	#118
skinsfan69 Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 17,251	Re: Haskins released Draft a guy and play him. That is the way to go. QB on rookie deal. See Russell Wilson, Mahomes and now Josh Allen. Try and get in a 3 year window where you aren't paying your QB big dollars. We won't be able to afford Stafford, plus he is starting to get banged up so I would pass for those two reasons. The league is changing. Guys like Matt Ryan will be extinct in 5 years. You need a duel threat guy. I'm trying to trade up in the draft. Offer Payne or Allen and the 1st rounder. I'd go all in for the kid at BYU.

Haskins released

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