Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Seriously.

Fox News really works I guess.

Don't realy watch Fox News at most maybe 15 min a week.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

If my memory serves me well, the Vikings themselves invaded England to raid the monastaries.

The Battle of Hastings, the Normans are descendants of Vikings. Who cares when the Saxons became Christians. Fact is the Irish did not save civilization with one freaking book. You are reaching.

That my friend is called the reason why we don't need those guys in Texas rewriting our history books.

fundamentalism = over simplification with a few fabrications thrown in there to force logical square pegs into round holes.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

This my friend is how Europe escaped the Dark Ages. This answers the question why do we use the Arabic Number system instead fo the monastery number system (which includes zero), and also the reason all known stars of antiquity have Arabic names.


In his book titled, "Spain In The Modern World," James Cleuge explains the significance of Cordova in Medieval Europe:

"For there was nothing like it, at that epoch, in the rest of Europe. The best minds in that continent looked to Spain for everything which most clearly differentiates a human being from a tiger." (Cleugh, 1953, p. 70)

During the end of the first millennium, Cordova was the intellectual well from which European humanity came to drink. Students from France and England traveled there to sit at the feet of Muslim, Christian and Jewish scholars, to learn philosophy, science and medicine (Digest, 1973, p. 622). In the great library of Cordova alone, there were some 600,000 manuscripts (Burke, 1978, p. 122).

Hahahahahaha! monks had one book.


This rich and sophisticated society took a tolerant view towards other faiths. Tolerance was unheard of in the rest of Europe. But in Moorish Spain, "thousands of Jews and Christians lived in peace and harmony with their Muslim overlords." (Burke, 1985, p. 38) The society had a literary rather than religious base. Economically their prosperity was unparalleled for centuries. The aristocracy promoted private land ownership and encouraged Jews in banking. There was little or no Muslim prostelyting. Instead, non-believers simply paid an extra tax!

"Their society had become too sophisticated to be fanatical. Christians and Moslems, with Jews as their intermediaries and interpreters, lived side by side and fought, not each other, but other mixed communities." (Cleugh, 1953, p. 71)

Spain, as an example of religious tolerance is an excellent example and I agree that the muslim world was the primary savior of ancient knowledge. Again, it was through adhering to the tenents of Islam that this knowledge was preserved as, at the time, knowledge was valued as a path to Allah. I am all good with that. Where Islam did not reach, Christianity, through monastaries, often served as points of learning.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Both false and unfair. Monasteries were the great libraries of Europe outside of Moorish Spain. For just one example, if you have ever heard of Aesop's fables, those tales were preserved from multiple sources over centuries by Christian monasteries.

And that, good sir, was my initial premise. Thank you.

[firstdown]

I think I have had my history lesson for today.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

The Battle of Hastings, the Normans are descendants of Vikings. Who cares when the Saxons became Christians. Fact is the Irish did not save civilization with one freaking book. You are reaching.

That my friend is called the reason why we don't need those guys in Texas rewriting our history books.

fundamentalism = over simplification with a few fabrications thrown in there to force logical square pegs into round holes.

I reach for nothing, my initial premise was simply that christianity played a significant role in preserving ancient knowledge and promoting scholarship. has organized religion also (both muslim and christianity) been used in the destruction of the same? Yup.

It was your stupid, ignorant, dumb, mindless, uneducated assertion that I was wrong in this premise b/c Christianity didn't come to the British Isles until 1066 that, IMO, epitomized the smug criticism of christianity of some on this board.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I think I have had my history lesson for today.

That my friend is the dag gone truth.

[BleedBurgundy]

Ok, now let's debate the validity of:

All of humanity being descended from two people, one of which was made from the other's rib. These two people lived in a wonderful garden, but were tricked into eating mystical fruit by a tricky reptile.

Magic sea creatures that swallow people without digesting them and then spit them out on the beach.

"Angels" committing genocide by murdering the first born sons of a given ethnic group.

The surface tension of water and the associated application to mideastern carpenters.

Ghosts. No really, f'ing ghosts.

Demons, Devils and the like...

Religion is not for the rational mind.

[SmootSmack]

Let's try to keep things civil here and refrain from personal attacks. Threads the last few days have gotten pretty heated and personal.

[saden1]

Give it up for scholars from Al-Andalus...no one did it bigger and better in saving the west from the dark ages. Cordoba, Granada, Seville, Toledo oh my.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Kind of hard to give credit for preserving something which they horded and denied to others. Especially when they chose what to preserve and what to destroy based upon how well it meshed with their teachings and subsequent control of the masses. I'm not picking on Christianity. This goes for all organized religion. What I'm saying is that as an organization, their good works were largely self serving. Just my opinion. Love the philosophy of Christianity, but you can keep the "magic."

First, not sure why you say "horded". As a general rule, I believe the books were there for anyone to use. If you have something that says to the contrary, I would be glad to review it. At the same time, it's one of those things that, until the time of Charlemagne, no one but the church thought it important to read. Charlemagne, upon his conversion to Christianity, actively sought to expand knowledge throughout his kingdom.

Again, obviously, anything can be self serving to assert that the Church's good works were "largely self serving" is a subjective opinion with which I disagree. I am not blind to the flaws, just don't think they discredit the accompanying good works.

As for "magic", I don't buy it either - but that's another story altogether.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's try to keep things civil here and refrain from personal attacks. Threads the last few days have gotten pretty heated and personal.

Just wanted to second this.

Not sure what's up recently, but yeah people are getting a little out of hand. Let's tone it down.

[firstdown]

I think you guys studied to much while I was out having too much fun.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I think you guys studied to much while I was out having too much fun.

Are you implying you can't have fun studying?

[Ruhskins]

See good things don't come out of Texas: Bogus changes to history books, Jerry Jones, the Dallas Cowboys, etc., etc. LOL.