When is Enough ,Enough?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Trump is misreading his base if he thinks that any of the Republicans or conservatives or tea party or Libertarians that lean conservative or MAGA crowd want to be soft on Russia. It's more shocking that the Democrats who hate Trump have now found this fear and anger and distrust of Russia, when -from Mondale to Obama - they generally wanted reset after reset, friendlier relations, etc. In fact if you look at which party aligns closer to Russia's socio-economic plans it would generally be the Democratic Party. That said Trump was definitely way off-base today and probably cost himself a lot of capital across his base and may have lost the House of Representatives.

I don't doubt that there is a portion of his base that actually pays attention to current events and doesn't just blindly follow the leader. But he definitely has a crowd (I guess we'll call them the diehards) where they measure all his actions based off how bad it pisses off the liberals. Aka if we're pissed off, it must be a good move. I base this off people I know, people I used to work with (and now see on FB supporting his every move) and current coworkers (one of whom I was just talking with this morning who said Trump is clearly the only President trying to make peace with Russia and there's nothing to prove Putin has bad intentions ). It's unbelievable.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by MTK

The question has to be asked, is Trump a threat to our national security at this point?

It's a legit question, especially since you know he'd be the first to cry foul if/when he loses an election. But NC is right, in the intelligence community it needs to be all hands on deck to safeguard our upcoming election this year. After the success they had in 2016 via the troll factory it's safe to assume they will only push harder now.

For me the answer is yes when Trump says he has insisted that Russian intelligence come work with our intelligence to figure out who these dastardly 12 Russians are really working for. Clearly they're deep state actors trying to bring down Putin and Trump.

[CRedskinsRule]

Without defending Trumps summit, I am curious what US policies regarding Russia would be different if Trump was "more" anti-russian?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Without defending Trumps summit, I am curious what US policies regarding Russia would be different if Trump was "more" anti-russian?

of course when this question was raised by me several years ago as Putin made Obama his little bitch....the responses from the left were "well what do you want a war with Russia?" Very typical, "the GOP are sabre rattling" response.

To be clear, Obama policy towards Russia was terrible (he was Putin lil bitch...its well stated history at this point) and the fact he allowed them to fuck with the elections made it worse. Even when Obama and the administration knew Russia was fucking with the elections Obama told agencies to "stand down"-again, this is FACT.

What to do now?...there are many options, but Trump is isolating so many partners.

Ideally, somehow bringing in Russian who are responsible for election/DNC hacking would be ideal. Putting a face to this shit. Parading them would be great.

I think aggressive actions online against Russian security around election period to demonstrate consequence for previous actions.

Trump and the administration could reach out to Poland and Ukraine making commitments to them. Working with Ukraine to end the war there.

I think on the heals of a NATO conference where Trump seemed to make headway in getting them to kick in more money...announce a strong security deal with the countries that are committed to doing just that.

Germany energy policy. Is there a way Trump and the administration to get a trade deal that German buys less energy from Russia and more from other sources? Map that deal against other Balkan states who have energy deals with Russia.

[Giantone]

Chico, an Obama deflection ,really???

[MTK]

Here comes the pivot

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by MTK

Here comes the pivot

If the claim is that he is under Putins thunb, and that press conference sure as hell looked like that, what policies would you see changed from what is in place. We are certainly more aggressively anti Russia in Ukraine where we are arming Ukraine with weapons that they didnt have before. In Syria we are far more aggressive against Assad's chemical weapons regardless of Russian advisors, we have increased sanctions in general. We have reinstated iranian sanctions.

What policies reflect putins thumb?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Chico, an Obama deflection ,really???

Context is crucial. But with Trump is definitely different because it’s so out of line with a strategy. Trump actions are detrimental bc we have the facts and he still acted like a bitch...at the same time throwing his own agencies under the bus for either a. selfish incompetence or b. The Russians have his balls in their hands.

There is certainly a difference between the 2 presidencies, neither effective with the Russian policy.

Trump missed a yuge opportunity to say enough is enough...he shrunk

[CRedskinsRule]

G1 you are going to LOOOOVVEEEE me posting this one!

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/opini...ley/index.html

he references a cult, it's CNN (well daily telegraph reposted), he gives Trump credit for being tough on Russia, he points to all sorts of historical references, and I agree with nearly everything he says. (don't like the cult reference lol)

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by MTK

Here comes the pivot

Really!!
They both denounce trump but now try to explain away his treacherous behavior . Next we will hear it was " trump misspoke " or "locker room talk" or "alternative facts".

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Really!!
They both denounce trump but now try to explain away his treacherous behavior . Next we will hear it was " trump misspoke " or "locker room talk" or "alternative facts".

Lol G1 is not reading again.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Lol G1 is not reading again.

.............and Chico is "spinning".......again.

[CRedskinsRule]

I wanted to hit some highlights from that article, because it is so on target for me.

Trump is not a Russian agent, and we have no reason to believe he's being blackmailed; the psychological truth is probably that Trump cannot accept that Moscow played a role in the election victory he is so proud of -- with or without the Trump campaign's knowledge -- and so he prefers to believe that his own nation's agencies are in error.

The Trump administration is perfectly tough on Russia. It has expelled Russian diplomats, attacked Moscow's ally in Syria (the US military also killed hundreds of Russian mercenaries in Syria in February), raised US defense spending and given arms to Ukraine.

And if Trump's meeting with Putin truly shocks you, I urge you to Google photos of Jimmy Carter meeting the Shah of Iran. Or Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein. Both these tyrants were once considered friends or partners with the United States, much as Reagan once described the Contras -- who were accused of kidnap, rape and torture in the Nicaraguan civil war -- as "the moral equal of our founding fathers."

When Barack Obama was in charge, we were told that everything he did was a "first." Now that Trump runs things, everything he does is the "worst." And finally, with that Helsinki, Finland, press conference with Vladimir Putin, he seems to have provoked the GOP to join the hyperbole.

Now we know what constitutes a step too far for Republicans. Not banning most trans people from the military nor splitting up families at the border nor cutting taxes for the super rich. No, it's being nice to Russia.

Honestly, I should just repost the whole article, but I've given the link twice if anyone is so inclined.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I wanted to hit some highlights from that article, because it is so on target for me.

Honestly, I should just repost the whole article, but I've given the link twice if anyone is so inclined.

.......of course it is ,you're one of them.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Giantone

.......of course it is ,you're one of them.

Would you kindly answer one of these 2 questions then:

1) What policy or policies has Trump enacted that has presented a softer/weaker stance then Pres. Obama?

or

2) What policy or policies should Trump have enacted that are tougher than our current policy?