Trayvon Martin Case

[JoeRedskin]

It's testimony like the EMT's that no one normally hears about that turns cases and has everyone who wasn't in the courtroom going "WTF - how could they rule that way?". Next time you see that happen, don't be so quick to judge the jury as idiots - they hear a ton of sh** nobody else does b/c it's just not sexy testimony. Ten minutes of testimony can drastically alter the outcome of a case.

[NC_Skins]

Haven't watch any, but have read the stuff you all posted. I think its the media that wants to convict Zimmerman. Makes for a better storyline for them.

[over the mountain]

joe - i havent had a chance to follow the trial live .. im actually pretty much following it from your synopsis at this point ..... if the jury find for the defense after hearing and considering all the evidence and testimony then i can live with the verdict but .... i hope forensic evidence concludes that martin never had control of the gun and the jury can hang their guilty verdict hat on that bc i dont believe a person should be able to use deadly force on an unarmed person.

either way, one side of this is going to be very upset.

is there a lesser included charge in play? man 2?

[JoeRedskin]

I am just reading the blogger posts from here: Witness: Zimmerman, Martin in MMA-style fight | HLNtv.com

If you scroll down, you'll see the almost minute by minute posting. Again, a lot of what is happening is getting lost b/c we can't see or hear the witnesses but the blogger seems to be getting the crux of it.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

joe - i havent had a chance to follow the trial live .. im actually pretty much following it from your synopsis at this point .....

Great. Now JR becomes the WP Legal Analyst.

Originally Posted by over the mountain

if the jury find for the defense after hearing and considering all the evidence and testimony then i can live with the verdict but ....

They will unless they go all OJ. The facts will come out and show that Martin was the aggressor.

Originally Posted by over the mountain

i hope forensic evidence concludes that martin never had control of the gun and the jury can hang their guilty verdict hat on that bc i dont believe a person should be able to use deadly force on an unarmed person.

Just because someone doesn't have a weapon shouldn't stop the use of defensive lethal response. You'd want a gun if Chuck Norris threw down with you.

Originally Posted by over the mountain

either way, one side of this is going to be very upset.

is there a lesser included charge in play? man 2?

Not guilty. Cue the riots.

[over the mountain]

oh ... i followed the min by min postings on the first day. was helpful.

[over the mountain]

Just because someone doesn't have a weapon shouldn't stop the use of defensive lethal response. You'd want a gun if Chuck Norris threw down with you.

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I have a big problem accepting the use of deadly force on an unarmed combatant. Just bc you are losing the fist fight doesnt mean you get to shoot them.

and no the sidewalk or fist doesnt count as a deadly weapon imo.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Haven't watch any, but have read the stuff you all posted. I think its the media that wants to convict Zimmerman. Makes for a better storyline for them.

From a moral judgment standpoint a bunch of stuff matters that doesn't matter in a legal sense and vice-versa. He may not be "guilty" but he almost surely is responsible. That's why something like this is such a big deal media-wise. Responsible and guilty aren't the same thing. The media on the whole feeds the mentality that responsibility = guilt. Same thing happened in the OJ case. The prosecution didn't prove he was guilty. Everyone KNOWS he did it but that doesn't matter.

[RedskinRat]

Zimmerman should be banned from owning or possessing a handgun (Firearm), for life. No more.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

joe - i havent had a chance to follow the trial live .. im actually pretty much following it from your synopsis at this point ..... if the jury find for the defense after hearing and considering all the evidence and testimony then i can live with the verdict but .... i hope forensic evidence concludes that martin never had control of the gun and the jury can hang their guilty verdict hat on that bc i dont believe a person should be able to use deadly force on an unarmed person.
either way, one side of this is going to be very upset.

is there a lesser included charge in play? man 2?

I have no problem with the use of deadly force if you are being beaten to death. If you're being overpowered, you have the right to defend yourself. [NOTE: If you initiated the fight and are simply losing, no -- deadly force is not okay. Even if you start a fight, the other person doesn't have the right to beat you to death - you can protect yourself but you're right to claim self-defense is severely impaired].

As to the lesser charge, I don't know for sure but would expect manslaughter to be available if they don't find 2nd degree murder. Right now, not sure they even have that.

What they have is: After a verbal confrontation, somehow a fight started, the two were rolling around and, at some point, Zimmerman is his back with Martin giving him the "ground and pound" while Zimmerman has injuries that could put a reasonable person in fear of their life.

Not sure I would send someone to jail on that.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

Just because someone doesn't have a weapon shouldn't stop the use of defensive lethal response. You'd want a gun if Chuck Norris threw down with you.

---------------------------------------------------

I have a big problem accepting the use of deadly force on an unarmed combatant. Just bc you are losing the fist fight doesnt mean you get to shoot them.

and no the sidewalk or fist doesnt count as a deadly weapon imo.

If an 80 year old is attacked by a teenager I'd like the 80 year old to be armed.

There are a lot of people who can kill with a single punch/kick. More amateurish attempts can take longer to kill, affording the victim the opportunity to fight back without being physically even to the aggressor.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Zimmerman should be banned from owning or possessing a handgun (Firearm), for life. No more.

Disagree. If Zimmerman's found not guilty, maybe he should carry more often for his own protection.

SMH if the rest of the trial continues like this, and there are STILL riots if Zimmerman walks.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

From a moral judgment standpoint a bunch of stuff matters that doesn't matter in a legal sense and vice-versa. He may not be "guilty" but he almost surely is responsible. That's why something like this is such a big deal media-wise. Responsible and guilty aren't the same thing. The media on the whole feeds the mentality that responsibility = guilt. Same thing happened in the OJ case. The prosecution didn't prove he was guilty. Everyone KNOWS he did it but that doesn't matter.

How isd Z responsible. If he was attacked BY Trayvon then it Trayvon who is responsible for his own death. I know Z was told to not follow him but just following him does not make him guilty of anything.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Disagree. If Zimmerman's found not guilty, maybe he should carry more often for his own protection.

You make a good point, he'll need security detail for life.

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

SMH if the rest of the trial continues like this, and there are STILL riots if Zimmerman walks.

There will be, the court of popular opinion are against Zimmerman. Just watch Nancy Grace for a sense of how repugnant some of the reporting is. Not while you're eating, obviously.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

I have a big problem accepting the use of deadly force on an unarmed combatant. Just bc you are losing the fist fight doesnt mean you get to shoot them.

I agree. BUT, there is a difference between "losing a fist fight" and fear that you are being beaten to death. You're on the ground, you've had your nose smashed, you're head is being slammed against the concrete and you taste blood in your throat. You've called for help and the person beating you doesn't stop and their is no one there to pull him off. May I please pull a gun now or should I wait until after I lose conscienceness?

I won and lost a few fistfights back in the day - you and I am both know, however, that there is a point where "losing a fist fight" turns into a deadly beat down.