Dwayne Haskins

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

Was Robert Mike's guy in 2013?

Why do you say Kirk was Jay's guy?

All the insiders say Colt is and was Jay's guy and Jay had already benched Kirk in favor of Colt.

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Your history is just a little off. Not at that time - the question at that point was RGIII vs Kirk, and Jay emphatically declared "it's Kirk's team" in the preseason that year, which led to 29 TDs and 11 INTs that season.

Colt is definitely loved by Jay now, but Jay never considered Colt in 2015. I think Jay would love to see Colt win the job this year, but he also knows Colt hasn't been able to stay healthy anytime he's given him a shot.

Jay is truly in QB competition mode now. He knows Colt knows the offense the best, he also knows Colt has never been durable. He also knows Haskins has nice ability but he's going to look like a rookie. And he also knows he needs to see a lot more of Keenum in his system before he can make a call.

Jay needs more information. As does everyone in the front office. They'll all wait to see how it plays out in camp and the preseason.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by MTK

Haskins was 100% Snyder’s pick and some still think Gruden or anyone else will make the call as to who starts?? LOL


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was it ever confirmed Haskins was "100%" Snyder's pick? This was a rampant rumor on draft day, but beat reporters seemed to back off/debunk this in the days following the draft.

As with every player, different people within the organization had different opinions on Haskins' draft value... And part of that difference of opinion dealt with how long people thought it would take him to be NFL-ready. If you think a guy can start day 1, you're going to draft him higher than if you think he needs to sit a year.

So even if, as those initial reports claimed, every single coach and scout and front office guy was against Haskins at 15, but Snyder "took control of the first round" and overruled them all, that does not correlate to Snyder making the decision on when he starts. Its entirely possible Snyder wanted to get his franchise QB of the future at 15, but he'll let the coaches decide when he plays.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Your history is just a little off. Not at that time - the question at that point was RGIII vs Kirk, and Jay emphatically declared "it's Kirk's team" in the preseason that year, which led to 29 TDs and 11 INTs that season.



Colt is definitely loved by Jay now, but Jay never considered Colt in 2015. I think Jay would love to see Colt win the job this year, but he also knows Colt hasn't been able to stay healthy anytime he's given him a shot.



Jay is truly in QB competition mode now. He knows Colt knows the offense the best, he also knows Colt has never been durable. He also knows Haskins has nice ability but he's going to look like a rookie. And he also knows he needs to see a lot more of Keenum in his system before he can make a call.



Jay needs more information. As does everyone in the front office. They'll all wait to see how it plays out in camp and the preseason.

You're reading things into Jay's statement that simply isn't there.

That it was Jay's decision to make Kirk QB1.

The situation was discussed by Thom Laverro at length on the radio that Jay had a sit down with Dan and Bruce to get permission to bench RG3.

No one knows, including you, whether Jay ever had permission to start Colt over Kirk.

There is strong evidence that he didn't.

In Kirk's contract year, there was vocal frustration from Jay with how Kirk was operating the offense but Colt never saw the field.

It has been widely reported that Jay preferred Colt over Alex. Yet they traded assets for him and made him the starter without any competition. Alex struggled in Jay's offense and still remained the starter.



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[Schneed10]

Here come the tin foil hats. Fuck's sake.

[mooby]

Why don't we change the subject back to Haskins, seeing as how we are arguing about a subject that won't have a clear cut answer until all parties involved are ancient history with the Redskins.

Judging by this thread it seems the early reports on Haskins are great. Hard working kid, gets it, wants to be great, etc. I think that's fantastic and want nothing but the best for him.

Which is why this SI article that uses Haskins as an example is so concerning to me.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/06/19/sn...parents-sports

Originally Posted by Sports Illustrated

Call it the age of the sportsplow parent. And as ever, job one is controlling the narrative. On draft night Dwayne Sr. handpicked the media members allowed access. Earlier that afternoon, he had assembled the H&H team over lunch at Red Lobster to go over final details for his staff, mostly family and friends. “Every person that is out in the front or in the lobby, make sure you engage, shake hands and show everybody your pearly-white teeth,” Haskins said as he flashed an exaggerated smile. “Can we all do that? Let’s practice that now.” The precise greeting language is typed up on the meeting’s eight-part agenda: “Welcome to the Haskins family draft party! Dreams do come true!”

One by one, everyone at the table repeated the line.

When Washington picked Haskins Jr. at No. 15, the QB stepped in front of the camera for an interview with ESPN. This was his moment, the one he’d been working toward since he was nine years old. As he started to talk, his dad sidled into the broadcast shot, looming over his shoulder and nodding along in his white H&H cap.

This is some serious cringe-worthy shit. To be clear, I don't mind if Haskins Sr. wants to run the marketing ops for Haskins Jr. But if he ever crosses that line into Lavar Ball territory where he wants himself or Haskins Jr. to be involved in organizational decisions, I would be done with Haskins Sr.

Haskins Jr. will not be able to succeed if Haskins Sr. is out clearing the road of every potential road block for him. Part of succeeding is learning to overcome failure. Helicopter parenting might be able to slide in the little leagues, but it's concerning to hear that it's making its' way into the pro leagues (and if you think it isn't you need to read that entire article).

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Here come the tin foil hats. Fuck's sake.

All I did was point out that you were guessing at something you were guessing at.

Is there any report that Jay actually had a choice between Kirk and Colt at that time?

An ad hominem argument is easier than saying your source is the feeling you have deep down in your heart though.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by mooby

Why don't we change the subject back to Haskins, seeing as how we are arguing about a subject that won't have a clear cut answer until all parties involved are ancient history with the Redskins.

Judging by this thread it seems the early reports on Haskins are great. Hard working kid, gets it, wants to be great, etc. I think that's fantastic and want nothing but the best for him.

Which is why this SI article that uses Haskins as an example is so concerning to me.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/06/19/sn...parents-sports



This is some serious cringe-worthy shit. To be clear, I don't mind if Haskins Sr. wants to run the marketing ops for Haskins Jr. But if he ever crosses that line into Lavar Ball territory where he wants himself or Haskins Jr. to be involved in organizational decisions, I would be done with Haskins Sr.

Haskins Jr. will not be able to succeed if Haskins Sr. is out clearing the road of every potential road block for him. Part of succeeding is learning to overcome failure. Helicopter parenting might be able to slide in the little leagues, but it's concerning to hear that it's making its' way into the pro leagues (and if you think it isn't you need to read that entire article).

Truly cringe worthy but we are finding this more and more with parents and young superstars. It’s not about sports anymore, it’s about building brands and making money period.

It’s the Lebron effect, he saw what Jordan did and trying to one up him not with basketball but brand. And he has set the tone because the revenue stream options are ten times more these days than 30 years ago.

Of course dads all in...many are.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

was it ever confirmed Haskins was "100%" Snyder's pick? This was a rampant rumor on draft day, but beat reporters seemed to back off/debunk this in the days following the draft.

As with every player, different people within the organization had different opinions on Haskins' draft value... And part of that difference of opinion dealt with how long people thought it would take him to be NFL-ready. If you think a guy can start day 1, you're going to draft him higher than if you think he needs to sit a year.

So even if, as those initial reports claimed, every single coach and scout and front office guy was against Haskins at 15, but Snyder "took control of the first round" and overruled them all, that does not correlate to Snyder making the decision on when he starts. Its entirely possible Snyder wanted to get his franchise QB of the future at 15, but he'll let the coaches decide when he plays.

I thought it was pretty clear the football people didn't want Haskins at #15. There was more than enough smoke there to call it Snyder's fire.

[Schneed10]

What's irritating though is the implied notion that the dichotomy between the football people and others has anything to do with Snyder meddling. I look at it as your typical balance between short term views and long term views.

Jay Gruden doesn't have time to wait for a rookie QB, so it's natural for him to lobby for an impact pass rusher at 15.

The front office has the long view, having a QB on a rookie contract offers a window of opportunity to build up the roster and make a run in the next 5 years before you have to pay him big QB money.

The long view won. Is that Snyder meddling, or is it just the typical balance you need to have when your coach's incentives are colored by the immediate need to win to earn a contract extension?

It's not like the Haskins pick was panned as a reach. Snyder has not been a good owner but I refuse to kill him over this one.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by MTK

I thought it was pretty clear the football people didn't want Haskins at #15. There was more than enough smoke there to call it Snyder's fire.

Not arguing whether this is accurate or not, but that's surprising if true. I thought Haskins, as a warpath paid expert, at 15 was an easy choice.

[sdskinsfan2001]

^^^

Still can't believe we got Sweat in the 1st round. We could have picked anyone at 15 that was a reasonable choice, and with Sweat included, I would have loved the 1st round.

Note - I originally wanted Lock (would have been pumped with him at 15), but every team passed on him in round 1, so looks like I was off. I'm sold on Haskins now tho. Excited to watch him play. I always am intrested in preseason, but this year its ramped up a notch.

[KI Skins Fan]

I'm drinking the Haskins-flavored Kool Aid by the gallon. If Dan Snyder overruled the football people to pick Haskins at #15 then I say "Thanks, Dan!".

[skinsfaninok]

Good stuff from The Athletic. I would post the link but it's not a free site so it would not work.

During Daniel Snyder’s 20-year run as Washington’s owner, the franchise has drafted four quarterbacks in the first round: Patrick Ramsey (2002), Jason Campbell (2005), Robert Griffin III (2012) and Dwayne Haskins (2019).

Recently, a subscriber to The Athletic, Mike B., wondered how the quarterbacks taken before Haskins were covered by the media in the days between the draft and their first preseason snaps.

It’s a good question. (Thanks, Mike B.!)

Here’s how the local and national media covered them. There was a lot of hope, but the results didn’t live up to the hype.

Patrick Ramsey, 2002, 32nd-overall pick
Why Washington drafted him: There wasn’t a starting-caliber signal caller on the roster. Many immediately questioned why Washington took him with the final pick of the first round; then-coach Steve Spurrier made it clear that he saw the competition for the starting job being between his former Florida quarterbacks, Danny Wuerffel and Shane Matthews. Sage Rosenfels was also in the mix. Ramsey, a three-year starter at Tulane, left the program with 30 school records, and Washington made him the first quarterback since Heath Shuler (1994) to be selected by the team in the first round. In 31 consecutive games at Tulane, Ramsey threw at least one touchdown and completed 798 of 1,355 passes for 9,205 yards and 72 touchdowns. The 6-foot-2, 220-pound, Ruston, La., native was the only Green Wave player to record a 400-yard passing game and did so four times at Tulane.

The hype men: “Ramsey displayed touch and precise passing at both Tulane and the Senior Bowl practices. He got no help at Tulane and often got beat up. But Ramsey hung in there. He looks a lot like another former quarterback from Louisiana, Bert Jones. The only question about Ramsey is his lack of mobility. But he has the prototype delivery and arm strength to be an NFL starter.” — ESPN’s Mel Kiper, Jr.

“The first three quarterbacks selected in this year’s draft — David Carr, Joey Harrington and Patrick Ramsey — are all mobile.” — The New York Times’ Thomas George

“The Redskins are hoping Ramsey plays well enough to spend the next decade or more in the area code. … ‘It’s all new to him, but he can really throw,’ Spurrier said. ‘He has a beautiful throwing motion. There’s a lot of stuff to it — learning where to throw it and when to throw it. He’s got a pretty good mind. But changing plays and audibling and all that, it’s foreign to him. I think he’s got a big-time future. How much he’ll play this year, I don’t know. But I know one thing: He’s come a long way from that first minicamp until about a month later. He did a lot of homework and worked on his mechanics. His fundamentals of throwing are much improved.’ — The Washington Post’s Mark Maske

Thumbs down: “One has to wonder how strongly Washington Redskins coach Steve Spurrier endorsed the choice of Tulane quarterback Patrick Ramsey in the first round. Spurrier had been lukewarm about Ramsey, although scout Ron Nay loved him. In one of the Skins’ final draft meetings, Spurrier reiterated that he expected Danny Wuerffel to be the starter even if the club chose Ramsey. It’s as if Spurrier is hell-bent on convincing the world he can win with Wuerffel, a guy no one else considers of starter quality, playing for him. The rest of the league figures that, by default, Ramsey becomes the best quarterback on the roster.” — ESPN’s Len Pasquarelli

“Patrick can’t just jump in here and go,” Matthews told the Houston Chronicle’s John McClain. “The speed of the game is totally different. It’s extremely fast when you’re trying to think of what the guys around you are doing. That’s what he’s going to do for the first couple months because you can’t just go out and play if you’re thinking too much. … I came here to play, but, obviously, he’s the future of this franchise. Patrick has one of the best arms I’ve seen in a long time, but you have to know how to use that arm.”

Amazingly, Ramsey was nearly traded to the Chicago Bears before he ever played a game in D.C., as Washington grew impatient with the first-round pick’s 16-day holdout during training camp. Chicago, however, did not go for an offer of a 2003 first-round pick and second-year guard Mike Gandy in exchange for Ramsey, who had just bought a townhouse in the area.

“This whole deal’s been crazy. It’s an unfortunate situation. I’m just thrilled to be here at this point,” Ramsey told the Los Angeles Times. “I’m just learning the way this league works, and I was broken in early, I guess.”

How things played out: Ramsey played four seasons in Washington, starting five games his rookie season and 11 in 2003. But after that season, Spurrier quit, ultimately going back to college, and Snyder brought back Joe Gibbs for a second stint as head coach. Almost immediately, Washington pivoted from Ramsey, signing free agent QB Mark Brunell in February. Ramsey lasted two more years in D.C. but was traded to the Jets for a sixth-round pick in 2006. He played with the Jets and Broncos before his career ended in 2008. Ramsey threw for 5,930 yards, 35 touchdowns, 30 interceptions and a 74.9 QB rating in seven NFL seasons.

Jason Campbell, 2005, 25th-overall pick
Why Washington drafted him: Campbell’s selection was a bit of a head-scratcher to many folks. Gibbs was well known for playing his veterans, and he had two at the time in Brunell and Ramsey. In the offseason leading up to the 2005 NFL Draft, Gibbs announced that it was Ramsey’s team. And then the team traded first-, third- and fourth-round picks to the Denver Broncos for the No. 25th pick, where the team selected Campbell, the former Auburn Tigers quarterback.

To be clear, Washington needed what Campbell offered. The offense was one of the worst in the league that season — 31st in scoring (15 ppg) and offensive touchdowns (24) and was 29th in passing (164.5 ypg). Brunell was notorious for not pushing the ball down the field, to the point that in more than half of the team’s games (nine of 16), it averaged less than 10 yards a completion and finished with a league-low 27 catches that went for 20 yards or more. In contrast, Campbell was the 2004 Southeastern Conference Offensive Player of the Year, earning raves for his big arm. In addition to that, he led the Tigers to an unscathed 13-0 record, an SEC championship, and Sugar Bowl victory, passing for 2,700 yards, 20 touchdowns and seven interceptions. He came out of Auburn as the program’s leader in completion percentage and passing efficiency, and second in yards, passing touchdowns, attempts and completions.

The hype men: “Truth be told, Campbell, a steady performer his first two seasons but a guy who made a quantum leap in terms of overall grasp of the position in the past two years, has already been a pleasant surprise for scouts. At 6-feet-4 3/4 and 227 pounds, he still moves well, and he posted 40-yard times in the 4.69-4.75 range on Monday and had a vertical jump of 38 inches. From a demeanor standpoint, Campbell might not appear quite as fiery … but teammates insist there is a raw emotion simmering not too far below the surface. While he has a yes-sir/no-sir kind of makeup, Campbell is definitely a leader, a bright youngster who overcame the handicap of playing for four different offensive coordinators and in four disparate systems, over the course of his career. It was under the tutelage of Al Borges, who installed a West Coast-style offense in ’04, that Campbell really blossomed … Even before Borges’ arrival, though, Campbell was deceptively accurate, completing more than 60 percent of his passes every season.” — ESPN’s Len Pasquarelli

“I still think some other team will take Campbell off the board late in the first round. Whether that means the Packers select him as an heir apparent to Brett Favre or the Browns or Titans trade up for additional first-round picks is anyone’s guess, but Campbell’s combination of size, athleticism and accuracy will be enticing to plenty of teams. He is accurate to an extreme, meaning he not only gets the ball to a receiver’s area but also places the ball in the right spot so receivers don’t have to break stride.” — ESPN’s Mel Kiper, Jr.

Thumbs down: “And as long as we’re discussing the ramifications of the pick: What makes anybody think that Campbell is so great? Did you see the running backs he had behind him at Auburn? Ronnie Brown was the No. 2 overall pick in this draft, and Cadillac Williams was the No. 5. When was the last time two running backs on the same college team were drafted that high? The answer is: Never. Wouldn’t you suspect that having two backs of that quality makes it a whole lot easier for a quarterback to pass the ball? I mean, wouldn’t you suspect that defenses geared up to stop the run against Auburn? So whenever Campbell threw the ball, the defenses said, ‘Fine, we can live with him trying to beat us?’ Maybe Campbell is a great quarterback. But with running backs like that, how much did he really have to do on his own? Pretty much all Campbell had to do was pivot, hand the ball off and watch as the zebras on the sideline moved the chains. Gibbs said he was impressed by the fact that Campbell ‘can actually throw a fadeaway.’ So could my dog Maggie if she got 30 seconds to throw a pass because the defense was always consumed with stopping the run.” — The Washington Post’s Tony Kornheiser

Washington taking a quarterback in the first round was a shocker for most analysts. Whether it be because of Ramsey’s spot still on the team or Gibbs preference for veteran players to play ahead of rookies and younger players, the overwhelming thought was that should the team grab Campbell, it would be in later rounds where he was projected to be picked. Especially for the price the team paid to Denver, essentially giving up three chances to select contributors, it was assumed a more glaring need would be addressed.

“Why give up a first-rounder in 2006 for a guy who’s not going to help you win right now, especially when immediate results are what you’re looking for and you already have a young passer like Ramsey who should be entering the prime of his career?” — ESPN’s Mel Kiper, Jr. (Yes, Kiper is quoted as both supporting and wondering about Campbell — but, to be fair, the quotes were in different contexts.)

How things played out: Washington took things slowly with Campbell, making him inactive for the first 25 games of his career before he started the final seven games of the 2006 season. And he started all but seven games for Washington the next four years, including a career-best 3,618 yards and 20 TDs in 2009. It did not dissuade new coach Mike Shanahan from trading Campbell to Oakland in 2010 for a 2012 fourth-round pick, and trading for Donovan McNabb. Campbell played 10 NFL seasons, including 79 starts for Washington, followed by stints in Oakland, Chicago and Cleveland. He finished his career with 16,697 yards passing, 87 touchdowns (six rushing), 60 interceptions and an 81.8 QB rating.

Robert Griffin III, 2012, 2nd-overall pick
Why Washington drafted him: In Washington’s first two seasons under Shanahan, it went 6-10 (2010) and 5-11 (2011). That 2011 season, Rex Grossman, with support from John Beck, led the team. Coming off those back-to-back poor seasons, Shanahan and the front office needed something to change the organization’s direction and get the fanbase excited.

Griffin finished his career at Baylor by leading the Bears to a 10-3 record, a 67-56 win over Washington in Alamo Bowl, the highest-scoring regulation bowl game in NCAA history and the Heisman Trophy. He had 4,293 passing yards, 37 passing touchdowns and six interceptions. On the ground, he produced 699 rushing yards and 10 rushing touchdowns on 179 carries.

The hype men: “The entire Redskins organization and fan base have been waiting for this moment since March 10, the day Dan Snyder gave Mike Shanahan permission to give up a lot to the St. Louis Rams to obtain the No. 2 overall pick in the draft — a spot Shanahan knew would be beneficial. … (Griffin) might be 22 years old, but the Heisman Trophy winner has been saying and doing all the right things throughout this entire process, and you would think he’s a 10-year veteran. Griffin comes to a town that has been starving for a winner and seems ready to put an entire franchise on his back and lead for the next decade. Now that draft night has come and gone; I think it’s safe to say that April 26, 2012, will go down as the most exciting day for the Redskins franchise since January 7, 2004. That was the day Dan Snyder introduced Joe Gibbs as the new head coach of the Redskins.” — WTOP’s George Wallace

“Griffin is different. He’s not another fading star at the end of his career. His star is rising quickly — and the Redskins should latch on for the ride. Anyone who has watched the polished Heisman Trophy winner from Baylor knows he has something special. It’s not just Griffin’s outstanding arm strength or that he’s faster than many wide receivers (seriously, though, his 40-yard dash time of 4.41 is ridiculous). He has poise. He has presence. Just call it the ‘it’ factor.” — The Washington Post’s Jason Reid

“The truth is there is no one currently in the NFL who combines all of RG3’s abilities. In order to truly compare Robert Griffin III to current NFL quarterbacks, we need to examine specific parts of his game. By comparing individual aspects, we can then add up the parts to get a more accurate picture of what RG3 might be like in the NFL.” — Bleacher Report’s Brian Filler

Thumbs down: “When I filed my camp tour report from Washington I said I wished Robert was sitting on the bench for 2012 — or at least part of the season. He needs to get more practice time in the NFL way of playing the game and would benefit from observation and practice.” — CBS Sports’ Pat Kirwan

“In my opinion, Griffin’s speed doesn’t enhance his draft stock. It damages it. I am not a Robert Griffin hater. I love RG3. In all likelihood, he will be my favorite NFL player next season. He could quickly become my favorite active athlete, ahead of Tiger Woods, Ray Lewis and Jeff George (has yet to file his retirement paperwork). But I’m worried about Griffin. He’s blessed with too many tools. Oftentimes, the greatest athletes are physically limited, which strengthens their focus. … NFL fans are going to want to see Griffin run. When you’re faster than everyone on the field, it makes sense to run. Griffin is going to be fighting common sense and his natural instincts. And what if he gets paired with the wrong head coach, a coach who is looking for a quick-fix rather than Griffin’s long-term success?… Shanahan could play Griffin as a rookie and allow him to run because his legs might produce eight or nine victories quicker than his arm. All coaches prefer to win now. It’s the only way to guarantee another season.” — Fox Sports’ Jason Whitlock

How things played out: Griffin’s rookie season was among the best by a first-year quarterback in NFL history. He threw for 3,200 yards, 20 touchdowns and five interceptions; he ran for 815 yards and seven more touchdowns. Washington won the NFC East and Griffin was named NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year, making the Pro Bowl. But that was the apex. Griffin’s rookie season, infamously, ended with a torn lateral collateral ligament injury in his right knee, an injury that also required reconstruction of his ACL, in Washington’s playoff loss to Seattle. Things rapidly deteriorated from there between Griffin and the team — specifically, between Griffin and Mike and Kyle Shanahan. Griffin returned much too quickly in 2013, and never was the same. By his fourth and final season in D.C., under second-year coach Jay Gruden, he didn’t play at all, watching as Kirk Cousins was given total reins of the team and took Washington to the top of the division and a playoff appearance. On March 7, 2016, the former Baylor standout was released. Griffin signed with Cleveland soon after and played sparingly for the Browns, before being released and missing the entire 2017 season. He was signed by the Ravens in 2018 and spent last season as Baltimore’s third-string QB. Currently, Griffin has 9,004 passing yards, 42 touchdowns, 26 interceptions and an 88.2 QB rating. In addition, he has 10 rushing touchdowns and 1,670 rushing yards.

[REDSKINS4ever]

What does everyone here think about what Theismann said about the first 5 games of the regular season schedule being potentially too much for Haskins to handle ?

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

What does everyone here think about what Theismann said about the first 5 games of the regular season schedule being potentially too much for Haskins to handle ?

Someone has to play. If he proves that he's our best option leading up to the season to win games, then he should play.

Our opening schedule is pretty brutal for any QB. Shouldn't deter from Haskins starting if he earned the job.