BREAKING NEWS: Cerrato resigns (Bruce Allen hired as VP/GM) - merged

[hooskins]

Let's reminisce the good times with Vinny.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcs...vinnyninja.jpg

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by vallin21

I agree Synder made the right move but is it the right guy for GM? He was fired by the Bucs who're worse than us. The guy had a chance to draft a decent player at 15 in '04 but took Michael Clayton. He did get that CB from Kansas, but none of his top picks went to the pro bowl or have made an impact, i.e (Gaines Adams). I' m glad we got rid of Vinny, but did we jump the gun to quick to get Allen?

One thing to mention about that -- the Glazer family had previously extended the contract of both Gruden and Bruce Allen before ultimately changing their mind after the '08 season. The Bucs did start out 9-3 before a late season slide.

It might have been a bit of a snap decision on the Glazer's part, and one that cost them quite a bit of money.

Allen's draft record with Tampa Bay did have some mixed results, but look at the drafts of Oakland too. Nnamdi Asomugha, Justin Fargas, and Sebastian Janikowski are notable picks by him.

I don't think there was a general manager candidate out there without some misses on their draft record. The guy with a perfect track record doesn't exist. Aside from Bill Polian, who as far as I know is not available, Allen had to be one of the top options who was currently unemployed.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

Hey, like I said, I am in favor of Gruden. I'm no big Mike Shannahan fan or anything, but I just dont see where this whole Elway was the only reason he was any good idea came from. Did he win a Super Bowl with anyone else? No, he didnt. Did Holmegren win a Super Bowl without Favre? Did Walsh win one without Montana? Lombardi without Bart Starr? (We can go on and on) I mean I am just saying he's a good coach. John Elway didn't make Mike Shannahan.

And what about 2007 for Shannahan?

Ok, what about 93,94,95,96,97,98, 01,02,03,04,06 and 2009 for the Redskins? I'll take what Mike Shannahan did without John Elway over our record the last 15 years anyday.

All I'm saying is he's a good football coach. Did Elway help, absolutley. Does Shannahan win a Super Bowl without Elway, maybe not... but he still coached a Broncos team year in and year out that was in the thick of the playoff race or in the playoffs.

I want to win a Super Bowl yes, thats all I really want and waht the goal should be..but we have to have a good regular season to have the right to play in January and that guy did it consistantly. Theres no arguing that.

Ok, All i meant is in your showing the w/l record, i didn't see 2007, and i wondered what that was. But I agree 100%. Gibbs only won 3 SB, but what mattered is every year, almost, the Redskins were relevant and feared. I would like to get back to that.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

According to PFT, the Skins have their sights on Shanahan. Florio's sources indicate this has been the plan all along and that Snyder wants Shanahan to run the show here and that firing Cerrato was the first step to make that happen.

If true, more than anything else, this means that Allen is really just Cerrato 2.0. Shanahan will have total control. Snyder will still be involved in things to some degree. Allen is just Snyder's newest puppet.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I go back to the SJ article. This move is as much about rebuilding a FO with integrity. Yes there are other pieces that need to come into play, like Smoot suggested, but VC had to go mainly to get rid of the backbiting, selfish, culture that had popped up in Ashburn.

I agree that our FO needed a makeover, but Im just trying to say that this makeover sucks. We should have gotten somebody signifacantly more qualified, somebody that didnt turn his recent superbowl champions into THE WORST team in football.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

What qualifies as not done jack though? Just cause he didnt win a Super Bowl without ELway?

Come on man...that is a weak argument. There have been plenty of great coaches that haven't won a SB, and Shanahan won 2. So does that mean Belichick is not special cause he never won a SB without Brady? How about Dungy without Manning? Or Holmgren without Favre? We are spoiled in that Gibbs won with 3 different QB's, that is an anomoly!

This is his record since Elway Left
99- 6-10
00 - 11-5
01- 8-8
02- 9-7
03- 10-6
04- 10-6
05 -13-3
06- 9-7
08- 8-8

What you fail to point out is that everyone considered Dan Reeves a great coach, yet Shanahan did something with the Broncos he never could. Also, Elway's years with Shanahan were the most productive of his career:
95- 86.4 rating (5th best of career)
96- 89.2 rating (3rd best of career)
97- 87.5 rating (4th best of career)
98- 93.0 rating (best of career)
So in 16 years, 4 of the best 5 of his career happened to occur during Shanahan's time. You don't think that's a sign of something?

Now... I'm more in favor of Gruden as well vs Shannahan... and Shannahan outside of a Conference Title Appaerance in 2005 didnt do much in the playoffs, an the AFC West has traditionally been much weaker then the NFC East.. but I'd certainley take this over what the REdskins had the last 10 years, thats for sure. I certainly dont think he did a bad job at all since Elway left.

Thats 6 winning seasons, 2 .55 seasons and a losing season...

All AFTER Elway.[/QUOTE]

Shanahan with elway 47-17 .734%. (including going 4-1 without Elway in that span, and 4-0 in 98 without Elway and won the SB that year)
Elway without Shanahan 105-66-1 .613%.

Clearly, Shanahan was the reason Elway overcame his humps.

The argument could easily be made that Shanahan made Elway, not the other way around. I doubt it's a coincidence that Shanahan got Elway 2 SB rings, when Elway had those great teams of the past and couldn't do it.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by skinster

I agree that our FO needed a makeover, but Im just trying to say that this makeover sucks. We should have gotten somebody signifacantly more qualified, somebody that didnt turn his recent superbowl champions into THE WORST team in football.

How can you say that without seeing the results?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinster

I agree that our FO needed a makeover, but Im just trying to say that this makeover sucks. We should have gotten somebody signifacantly more qualified, somebody that didnt turn his recent superbowl champions into THE WORST team in football.

I thought that title belonged to the Skins from week 9 last year to week 8 this year.

Seriously, the makeover is not even close to done, I would recommend patience and see what else happens. Bruce Allen may not be your top guy, but he atleast is recognized as a top candidate in many places, and is not a crony of Snyder, so let's see how it all plays out.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Come on man...that is a weak argument. There have been plenty of great coaches that haven't won a SB, and Shanahan won 2. So does that mean Belichick is not special cause he never won a SB without Brady? How about Dungy without Manning? Or Holmgren without Favre? We are spoiled in that Gibbs won with 3 different QB's, that is an anomoly!



What you fail to point out is that everyone considered Dan Reeves a great coach, yet Shanahan did something with the Broncos he never could. Also, Elway's years with Shanahan were the most productive of his career:
95- 86.4 rating (5th best of career)
96- 89.2 rating (3rd best of career)
97- 87.5 rating (4th best of career)
98- 93.0 rating (best of career)
So in 16 years, 4 of the best 5 of his career happened to occur during Shanahan's time. You don't think that's a sign of something?

Now... I'm more in favor of Gruden as well vs Shannahan... and Shannahan outside of a Conference Title Appaerance in 2005 didnt do much in the playoffs, an the AFC West has traditionally been much weaker then the NFC East.. but I'd certainley take this over what the REdskins had the last 10 years, thats for sure. I certainly dont think he did a bad job at all since Elway left.

Thats 6 winning seasons, 2 .55 seasons and a losing season...

All AFTER Elway.

Shanahan with elway 47-17 .734%. (including going 4-1 without Elway in that span, and 4-0 in 98 without Elway and won the SB that year)
Elway without Shanahan 105-66-1 .613%.

Clearly, Shanahan was the reason Elway overcame his humps.

The argument could easily be made that Shanahan made Elway, not the other way around. I doubt it's a coincidence that Shanahan got Elway 2 SB rings, when Elway had those great teams of the past and couldn't do it.[/QUOTE]

HAHA, maybe I just didnt say it right, but thats what I was trying to say!!

[saden1]

Gruden vs Shanahan? Easy...Shanahan!

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Ok, All i meant is in your showing the w/l record, i didn't see 2007, and i wondered what that was. But I agree 100%. Gibbs only won 3 SB, but what mattered is every year, almost, the Redskins were relevant and feared. I would like to get back to that.

Yeah, I caught that... my bad.

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

One thing to mention about that -- the Glazer family had previously extended the contract of both Gruden and Bruce Allen before ultimately changing their mind after the '08 season. The Bucs did start out 9-3 before a late season slide.

It might have been a bit of a snap decision on the Glazer's part, and one that cost them quite a bit of money.

Allen's draft record with Tampa Bay did have some mixed results, but look at the drafts of Oakland too. Nnamdi Asomugha, Justin Fargas, and Sebastian Janikowski are notable picks by him.

I don't think there was a general manager candidate out there without some misses on their draft record. The guy with a perfect track record doesn't exist. Aside from Bill Polian, who as far as I know is not available, Allen had to be one of the top options who was currently unemployed.

Yeah every GM has misses, but was Allen the best available guy? I don't think he was. When the news broke I thought Casserly was gonna be back in but he's getting old and he seems to like appearing on CSN. This move should've been made last year and we might've gotten Pioli from NE, but I think anything is better than Vinny so I'm cautiously optimistic.

[jamf]

How long till we sign Jeff Garcia?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

Yeah, I caught that... my bad.

funny thing is right after I posted mine, I saw your edit. Made me laugh

[Landry44]

I think Allen is qualified to be a GM. We're getting a guy that really knows football. That's something that this organization hasn't had in a long time.