What happens with Kyle Smith?

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by mooby

Everybody hits on some and misses on some. In baseball, getting a hit 3 times out of 10 consistently is considered elite.

Even the best ones in our league still miss. Doesn't mean they aren't good at their jobs. The best ones just hit more than they miss.

PFF rates our drafts last 2 years among best in NFL based on rather convoluted metrics that are heavily weighted towards immediate performance/production of players drafted. While these metrics are not gospel, they are a serious attempt to objectively quantify draft success using statistics. The job Smith has done at minimum puts us top-ten in drafting prowess last 2 years, and some would say much higher.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Scalper

You bring up an interesting point. Is the GM primarily administrator, or talent evaluator? Both. Skilled administrators are not hard to find. Skilled talent evaluators are. Mayhew's record of talent acquisition and evaluation is mediocre, neither great nor horrible. None of us were in the room, so we can't know how much Smith has ultimately been responsible for talent we have, but those who were in the building such as Shanny say he is very, very sharp.



I hate letting Smith walk and bringing in Hurney and Mayhew, but this is not as obvious as say the need to draft a QB and not trade for one. We had about a third of the young guru coaches in the league in our building, but didn't have the sense to keep any. Only time will tell if we made same mistake with Smith, but if Atlanta is stacked with talent in two years, and our drafts look mediocre, we'll know. It is telling that it took Smith less than a week to find a new job.



If we are evaluating Smith fairly, however, we must give him credit for our DL and gems like McLaurin, Gibson, Curl, etc., but also some of the gaping holes at WR, TE, etc. He gets a pass on QB because THE DAN meddled, forcing Haskins on him, as well as the albatross contract of Smith, who while a feel good story has never won anything. We can only wonder where we would be if Smith had been free to not trade for Smith nor draft Haskins, but rather had been allowed to pick the QBs he scouted as being the best. THE DAN'S meddling is just insane, burdens us with $20M+ Smith cap hit after trading our best young corner and a 3rd, plus wastes another 1st on Haskins. Plus if we had kept and resigned Fuller, we would have had an additional comp pick.



We can never know, but I think this hire comes down to two things: (1) Smith wanted to take a more long-term draft oriented approach, and Riviera like all coaches except a few has to be concerned about short-term production to keep his job. Developing a non-top-tier QB over 1-2 years is not how new coaches keep their job. Case study in why GM should be above coach in hierarchy. (2) Given THE DAN'S meddling and overall history of organization, RR wants people who are emphatically loyal to him.



It would have been interesting to see who Smith would have drafted for us at QB this year if given latitude to build the right way, but we'll never know. . .

Fairly good points, but I still note Smith was hired for the SAME POSITION not the GM or even asst GM. He can evaluate talent, but maybe he has some traits of his father when it comes to GM. I dunno, but going back to his stance on Haskins, and looking from a manager (RR) perspective, while he was right in that instance I imagine that it also could be seen by Ron as a warning sign if the two disagreed on picks and KS was GM. Would he go to Dan screaming that RR was making a mistake picking player x? Would he tell reporters thay he disagreed when RR didn't listen to his advice?

Just saying. A healthy front office is more than one excellent talent evaluator.

I wish KS nothing but the best, but this wasn't the place for his next step.

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[Scalper]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Fairly good points, but I still note Smith was hired for the SAME POSITION not the GM or even asst GM. He can evaluate talent, but maybe he has some traits of his father when it comes to GM. I dunno, but going back to his stance on Haskins, and looking from a manager (RR) perspective, while he was right in that instance I imagine that it also could be seen by Ron as a warning sign if the two disagreed on picks and KS was GM. Would he go to Dan screaming that RR was making a mistake picking player x? Would he tell reporters thay he disagreed when RR didn't listen to his advice?

Just saying. A healthy front office is more than one excellent talent evaluator.

I wish KS nothing but the best, but this wasn't the place for his next step.

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I agree this wasn't the place, because it still isn't a functional franchise.

Smith was always class act, never trial by media type, let's be fair to him.

Smith was right about Haskins, plain and simple. Worst part is he'll probably clean up his act under Steelers and they'll get a free franchise QB, but cutting him was the right choice.

I truly think Smith wants to do it right and build via draft and no coach stays that course as the end of their contract looms if they have personnel power. Smith is, I think, telling RR here's two QBs we should draft and develop this year, and RR wants to bring in a veteran to compete right away. There is no more fundamental disagreement than divergent QB philosophies. So the guy advocating the sound decision has to go.

I think you are correct that RR is also concerned THE DAN will meddle, especially by year 4 when some FAs weren't working, the honeymoon is over, we are good but not elite. THE DAN will start looking to meddle, and then starts talking to everyone behind RR's back. This is what THE DAN does and always will do. ALWAYS. Anyone who thinks THE DAN has changed or will ever change is a homer. So I don't fault RR for bringing in his own guys who will CERTAINLY tell him when (not if) THE DAN meddles, and anyone who has not been with RR long term would be more loyal to the owner than RR.

Yet I still think we let a guy go who is a better talent evaluator than either guy we hired, by a significant margin. Yet another DAN tax, in essence. We will NEVER win a SB as long as THE DAN owns the team, I rue the day he bought it.

The strategic problem is that our FO is still structured incorrectly, with the coach having power over GM. This is backwards. While the GM and coach must work together, talent acquisition should be fundamentally segregated from coaching the talent, to ensure coaches who often lack objectively don't make bad choices about talent acquisition. RR is a huge upgrade over the clowns past, but will still probably never get us to the promised land. We have to outcompete other FOs that are setup properly, who have truly brilliant GMs rather than retreads, and true franchise QBs. The dysfunction of THE DAN will perpetually prevent such a structure.

[Chico23231]

The fact Kyle Smith got a job immediately is again telling that he is highly respected around the league

[CRedskinsRule]

Atlanta definitely needs KS given their salary cap spot. I wonder if they will give him so chance to grow as a GM and salary cap management.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

The fact Kyle Smith got a job immediately is again telling that he is highly respected around the league

I don't think anyone, definitely not me, was saying that KS would not be valued as a talent evaluator. The question is simply whether he could be the GM we need or promoted just to be promoted. I think the league also clearly spoke that they didn't see him ready to take the next step yet.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't think anyone, definitely not me, was saying that KS would not be valued as a talent evaluator. The question is simply whether he could be the GM we need or promoted just to be promoted. I think the league also clearly spoke that they didn't see him ready to take the next step yet.

And in the end, if it wasn't a good working relationship between him and RR, then he simply had to go.

I'm confident in the current structure, until I have a reason not to be.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't think anyone, definitely not me, was saying that KS would not be valued as a talent evaluator. The question is simply whether he could be the GM we need or promoted just to be promoted. I think the league also clearly spoke that they didn't see him ready to take the next step yet.

I don't understand why we need to have this discussion about "is Kyle Smith considered GM ready around the league." He's clearly not.

It just reads to me like some people are shitting on Kyle on the way out because some of us are upset about losing a quality talent evaluator. This discussion about losing a GM is stupid, we're losing the only homegrown talent evaluator to come out of Football Team Park in the last 30 years. A guy who up until December was considered a rising star. Now he's garbage because him and Ron clearly had some philosophical difference in how to build the team.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

And in the end, if it wasn't a good working relationship between him and RR, then he simply had to go.

I'm confident in the current structure, until I have a reason not to be.

I agree with everything, except I'm not truly confident in the current structure given Hurney and Mayhew haven't done anything super confidence-inspiring. A good draft and improvement on last year's record will go a long way to easing my concerns though.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by mooby

I don't understand why we need to have this discussion about "is Kyle Smith considered GM ready around the league." He's clearly not.



It just reads to me like some people are shitting on Kyle on the way out because some of us are upset about losing a quality talent evaluator. This discussion about losing a GM is stupid, we're losing the only homegrown talent evaluator to come out of Football Team Park in the last 30 years. A guy who up until December was considered a rising star. Now he's garbage because him and Ron clearly had some philosophical difference in how to build the team.

He is not garbage, no one is saying that he is. The duscussion about GM is because that was the position that needed to be filled. Once a new GM is hired the staff changes. That isnt a huge shock. KS had put his time in here and I imagine he felt entitled to an interview - RR didn't see it that way. At that point each one had to decide what was best. That ended up being KS leaving. You wish him the best and move on.

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[CRedskinsRule]

I don't get the distrust of Mayhew/Hurney

Maybe Hurney but he seems like an eyes and ears type guy for RR.

Mayhew drafted Stafford, took had the lions place 2 and 3rd keeping them in contention. Before you say 2nd and 3rd derogatorily, other than his tenure in the last 20 years they placed 4th or 5th every year ( came in 2nd the year after he left so not sure if it was the team he put together).

For the 49ers he was part of the team that built the SB contenders from the 2nd overall pick.

He isn't an up and coming youthful guy but at 55 he has easily 10 years to put his experience to work to build SF type program here.

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[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't get the distrust of Mayhew/Hurney

Maybe Hurney but he seems like an eyes and ears type guy for RR.

Mayhew drafted Stafford, took had the lions place 2 and 3rd keeping them in contention. Before you say 2nd and 3rd derogatorily, other than his tenure in the last 20 years they placed 4th or 5th every year ( came in 2nd the year after he left so not sure if it was the team he put together).

For the 49ers he was part of the team that built the SB contenders from the 2nd overall pick.

He isn't an up and coming youthful guy but at 55 he has easily 10 years to put his experience to work to build SF type program here.

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I don't think it's as much the distrust of Mayhew/Hurney, as it is the unwillingness to come to terms with Kyle Smith leaving the organization.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

The fact Kyle Smith got a job immediately is again telling that he is highly respected around the league

If he was highly respect around the league I don’t think he would have made a lateral move. He’s solid for sure. But the man ain’t Jesus.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

He is not garbage, no one is saying that he is. The duscussion about GM is because that was the position that needed to be filled. Once a new GM is hired the staff changes. That isnt a huge shock. KS had put his time in here and I imagine he felt entitled to an interview - RR didn't see it that way. At that point each one had to decide what was best. That ended up being KS leaving. You wish him the best and move on.

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Cheers. I'm not sold on Hurney/Mayhew but their success is our success. Don't care who gets the credit as long as we rack up the W's and our football club becomes a contender again.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

If he was highly respect around the league I don’t think he would have made a lateral move. He’s solid for sure. But the man ain’t Jesus.

He is a far better talent evaluator than Jesus. Jesus drafted Judas and they didn’t work out to well in the end.