Ukraine mega thread

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

So they didn't take land in Crimea or Georgia? Iran certainly wants northern Iraq land and would gladly partition northern Iraq and Syria.

he did want land in georgia and crimea, he doesn't in syria. it's far away and an obvious headache. they already had their own misadventures in afghanistan where jihadii's came from far and wide, and they're already up to ~5k deaths in crimea last i heard. they wanted those parts of georgia and the ukraine because they feel those people are russians and they've stated that they consider themselves responsible for all native russian speakers. their aims in syria and with iran are different than the ukraine.

if they wanted to rule syria, they could just invade it, and then they'd have the entire burden of fighting isis, which wouldn't be cheap or popular back home.

[Hog1]

Kerry: Russia's deployment of fighter jets disturbing | Washington Examiner

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Kerry: Russia's deployment of fighter jets disturbing | Washington Examiner

Kerry needs to get punched in his fucking face because him and the administration has let this happen. Fuck Kerry

[Hog1]

The last few lines pretty much...sum it up


After years of calls for Assad's removal, Kerry acknowledged this softening by saying that "we're not being doctrinaire about the specific date or time" that Assad must be removed.

"We're open," he noted, adding that Assad does not need to leave "on day one, or month one, or whatever."

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Hog1

The last few lines pretty much...sum it up


After years of calls for Assad's removal, Kerry acknowledged this softening by saying that "we're not being doctrinaire about the specific date or time" that Assad must be removed.

"We're open," he noted, adding that Assad does not need to leave "on day one, or month one, or whatever."

Don't worry, Russia is just being friendly.

Sent from my S6 Edge

[Hog1]

lol
They've always been helpful like that.......

[Chico23231]

Amazing how aggressive Russian has been...equally amazing is our weak response allowing them to do whatever to whomever they want

Found it interesting Russia has announced they will be stepping up and taking in Syrian refugees and ate constructing camps and are sending humanitarian aid to parts of Syria. vSo basically they are beating us to the punch in every aspect of the Syrian crisis.

[CRedskinsRule]

10 maps that explain Russia's strategy - Business Insider

I found this article very interesting. It lays out in very clear terms the role that Ukraine/Russian geography plays and the dynamics of Russian geography. In particular was one pair of maps that showed the boundary of the German advance in 1942:


vs the current map if Ukraine is considered to be unfriendly to Russia:



Basically you could see a Russian mindset that they have lost nearly as much over the last 20 years as Germany took in 1942.

[SunnySide]

Bump ... lots of saber rattling lately but who knows what Putin really intends to do.

This feels like it could be an actual traditional war. Helmet on helmet .. no proxy taliban iraq isis yemen stuff. Syria was pretty close but it was a proxy civil war in my estimate.

One thing is for sure, if it does happen, the political talking points on the left and right in this country will be predictable trench tribal warfare.

[nonniey]

Unfortunately the Ukraine is in a worse tactical/strategic position than they were in 2014 the last time the Russians made a major move against them (I'm not counting the Donbass situation at that level). Their fleet for all intents was wiped out in 2014 as most of their units were interned in Crimea. If the Russians want to take the whole shebang I think they could.

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by nonniey

Unfortunately the Ukraine is in a worse tactical/strategic position than they were in 2014 the last time the Russians made a major move against them (I'm not counting the Donbass situation at that level). Their fleet for all intents was wiped out in 2014 as most of their units were interned in Crimea. If the Russians want to take the whole shebang I think they could.

The situation is interesting. Im not going to pretend to know the nuances of the past 30 years of Ukraine-Russia divorce but it seems Putin can take this as far as he wants. Parts of eastern Ukraine he could probably take in a week with his green men. Id guess he has enough clandestine forces there now to do a Crimea. Eastern Ukraine is mostly pro Russia it seems.

I just cant imagine western Ukraine or Kyiv going quietly. They are pro west and theres no way Russia will be able to get away with all the civilian deaths in Ukraine like they did in Syria. Cyber attacks or not, video will get out of crimes against humanity.

Id guess Putin takes parts of eastern Ukraine, solidifies lines and then tries to turn down the temperature. He would have achieved his goal of pouring cold water on the hopes of the people of Ukraine or Georgia ever becoming a NATO member. Perhaps they stop electing pro Nato presidents bc these campaign promises of "we will join NATO" are starting to ring hollow. Thye mght be forced to accept a more pro russian stance allowing Russia to offer them the carrot and not the stick.

Going into western Ukraine or Kyiv ... the snake might choke itself.


https://www.vox.com/22917719/russia-...nato-explained

^^^ a good basic info, how-did-we-get-here article.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

The situation is interesting. Im not going to pretend to know the nuances of the past 30 years of Ukraine-Russia divorce but it seems Putin can take this as far as he wants. Parts of eastern Ukraine he could probably take in a week with his green men. Id guess he has enough clandestine forces there now to do a Crimea. Eastern Ukraine is mostly pro Russia it seems.

I just cant imagine western Ukraine or Kyiv going quietly. They are pro west and theres no way Russia will be able to get away with all the civilian deaths in Ukraine like they did in Syria. Cyber attacks or not, video will get out of crimes against humanity.

Id guess Putin takes parts of eastern Ukraine, solidifies lines and then tries to turn down the temperature. He would have achieved his goal of pouring cold water on the hopes of the people of Ukraine or Georgia ever becoming a NATO member. Perhaps they stop electing pro Nato presidents bc these campaign promises of "we will join NATO" are starting to ring hollow. Thye mght be forced to accept a more pro russian stance allowing Russia to offer them the carrot and not the stick.

Going into western Ukraine or Kyiv ... the snake might choke itself.


https://www.vox.com/22917719/russia-...nato-explained

^^^ a good basic info, how-did-we-get-here article.

This is a dangerous game of chicken being played.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by nonniey

Unfortunately the Ukraine is in a worse tactical/strategic position than they were in 2014 the last time the Russians made a major move against them (I'm not counting the Donbass situation at that level). Their fleet for all intents was wiped out in 2014 as most of their units were interned in Crimea. If the Russians want to take the whole shebang I think they could.

Am I interpreting this correctly you dislike Ukraine, or am I reading into it?

[Chico23231]

Does Ukraine want to join NATO or does NATO want Ukraine as a member? I think is kinda a sticking issue which hasn’t been answered.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Does Ukraine want to join NATO or does NATO want Ukraine as a member? I think is kinda a sticking issue which hasn’t been answered.

Ya think??? JHC ,not the point chico,whatever it's Ukraines choice , not Putins.