BREAKING NEWS: Cerrato resigns (Bruce Allen hired as VP/GM) - merged

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Reminds me more of Gibbs than Vinny honestly.

That was my feeling as well, except with better clock management.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Landry44

I'm not going to base my opinion solely on what happen with the Bucs. We just hired the guy and I will wait and see what he does for us. I can careless about who he drafted when he was with the Bucs and Raiders. One thing I know about Allen is that he knows how to put together a roster.

No he doesnt. The bucs roster was never very talented. And I don't see how you can say you can care less about who he drafted but that he knows how to build a roster - the two go hand in hand. ALLEN IS NOT A PERSONEL GUY. He sucked at drafting and building a roster. He just agreed with whatever Gruden wanted. Thats why he and Gruden were dismissed in the first place. Consider this - Glazer is the cheapest owner in the NFL. Allen and Gruden had just signed huge contract extensions and yet Glazer got rid of them anyway. THAT is very telling.

[tryfuhl]

Beathard said he likes the move.. also this mentioned that he had talked about a return to DC

D.C. Sports Bog - Beathard: "It's a terrific move"

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

No he doesnt. The bucs roster was never very talented. And I don't see how you can say you can care less about who he drafted but that he knows how to build a roster - the two go hand in hand. ALLEN IS NOT A PERSONEL GUY. He sucked at drafting and building a roster. He just agreed with whatever Gruden wanted. Thats why he and Gruden were dismissed in the first place. Consider this - Glazer is the cheapest owner in the NFL. Allen and Gruden had just signed huge contract extensions and yet Glazer got rid of them anyway. THAT is very telling.

What about Oakland's roster? Like I said, let the guy do some work. Shit, do you want Vinny back here then? No. And maybe other people were not available. So just let it work out. Crap, is like damn if they do and damn if they don't. I'm not thinking Super Bowl right now, but shit, this is a different guy who's in a different team with a different owner.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Landry44

How many division titles did he win during that time period?

The NFC-South was the worst division in football during that time period. Winning the division twice in five years is no feat. And in both instances where they won the division, they lost in the wild card game. Gruden/Allen's regualr season record in Tampa Bay together was 38-42. If a 0.475 percentage winning record is something to get excited about, then we've got problems. If Snyder thinks hiring Allen and reuniting him with Gruden will win over the fans, and he succeeds in doing so - then its a testament to the stupidity of the fanbase more than anything else.

[tryfuhl]

There's really no telling who else was talked to. I'm sure that Snyder consulted with some people on this move, I'm sure he also likes the Allen name though as well; I wouldn't mind seeing a list of other candidates.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

No he doesnt. The bucs roster was never very talented. And I don't see how you can say you can care less about who he drafted but that he knows how to build a roster - the two go hand in hand. ALLEN IS NOT A PERSONEL GUY. He sucked at drafting and building a roster. He just agreed with whatever Gruden wanted. Thats why he and Gruden were dismissed in the first place. Consider this - Glazer is the cheapest owner in the NFL. Allen and Gruden had just signed huge contract extensions and yet Glazer got rid of them anyway. THAT is very telling.

They were 9-7 that season, so it was more on the ownership then on Allen Gruden. But really, lets at least give the plan time to develop. If the next few pieces don't reflect a change in plan then criticize away.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

What about Oakland's roster? Like I said, let the guy do some work. Shit, do you want Vinny back here then? No. And maybe other people were not available. So just let it work out. Crap, is like damn if they do and damn if they don't. I'm not thinking Super Bowl right now, but shit, this is a different guy who's in a different team with a different owner.

Honestly, i'd rather have kept Vinny than hire Allen and pair him with Gruden if thats what we end up doing. Atleast Vinny was a personnel guy. The man drafted pretty darn well. "GrudAll" didnt. Thier draft record speaks for itself.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Rick Stroud (from the St. Petersburg Times) was just interviewed on ESPN980 and reiterated what Smoot said earlier - Allen is a great administrator and contract guy, and thats all he's good at. The coach won't work FOR him, but rather WITH him. Some other of Ricks feelings on him:

1. He's a yes-man. He always did whatever Gruden and the owner wanted. So don't expect Snyder's level of involvement to be reduced.

2. The reason Tampa Bay's drafts from 2004 to 2007 were so bad because Allen and Gruden made all draft decisions "in a vacuum" - If Gruden wanted a player, Allen would agree with him, and they would select the player, regardless of what the scouting department recommended.

3. He and Gruden both like veteran players and value them over draft picks.

I didn't like the Allen hiring and i like it even less now. Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but he's Vinny 2.0. Nothing's really changed. Either one of two things will happen now:

1) We'll hire Gruden or a no-name coach and Snyder will still pull all the strings OR
2) We'll hire Shanahan and He'll have total authority over our offense. Snyder will step down and Allen will just be a puppet for Shannahan.

In either case, the one thing that this organization needs isn't going to happen - We won't have a "real" GM with full authority to make football decisions.

Seriously can you give the guy at least a day. I think some folks are just happy to have something to complain about.

[Landry44]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

No he doesnt. The bucs roster was never very talented. And I don't see how you can say you can care less about who he drafted but that he knows how to build a roster - the two go hand in hand. ALLEN IS NOT A PERSONEL GUY. He sucked at drafting and building a roster. He just agreed with whatever Gruden wanted. Thats why he and Gruden were dismissed in the first place. Consider this - Glazer is the cheapest owner in the NFL. Allen and Gruden had just signed huge contract extensions and yet Glazer got rid of them anyway. THAT is very telling.

He does know how to put together a roster. He won division championships with both Oakland and Tampa Bay. You can't base how he will perform here based on how he performed in other places. If that was the case then Vinny would have worked out here.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

The NFC-South was the worst division in football during that time period. Winning the division twice in five years is no feat. And in both instances where they won the division, they lost in the wild card game. Gruden/Allen's regualr season record in Tampa Bay together was 38-42. If a 0.475 percentage winning record is something to get excited about, then we've got problems. If Snyder thinks hiring Allen and reuniting him with Gruden will win over the fans, and he succeeds in doing so - then its a testament to the stupidity of the fanbase more than anything else.

Actually since 2002, outside of the NFC East, the NFC South has sent the most teams to the playoffs as wild card teams (3), compared to the NFC North (1), and the NFC West (2). And it seems that in the NFC South the teams have beaten each other up a lot, given that they've taken turns taking the division championship: Tampa Bay (3), Carolina (2), New Orleans (2), and Atlanta (1).

[SCRedskinsFan]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Honestly, i'd rather have kept Vinny than hire Allen and pair him with Gruden if thats what we end up doing. Atleast Vinny was a personnel guy. The man drafted pretty darn well. "GrudAll" didnt. Thier draft record speaks for itself.

You're very very alone with your Vinny love.

There is no question that he was a loner, a yes man, and a prick in a job that requires the exact opposite in order to be successful. Seems to me we have plenty of great "personnel guys" in our organization and what we need is a good manager to make it work.

If VC is as good as you say he is, he'll find employment elsewhere in the NFL. In the meantime, good riddance.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Honestly, i'd rather have kept Vinny than hire Allen and pair him with Gruden if thats what we end up doing. Atleast Vinny was a personnel guy. The man drafted pretty darn well. "GrudAll" didnt. Thier draft record speaks for itself.

And division titles nor SB appearances matter? Seriously man, just give it up and let the guy do something here.

[Landry44]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

The NFC-South was the worst division in football during that time period. Winning the division twice in five years is no feat. And in both instances where they won the division, they lost in the wild card game. Gruden/Allen's regualr season record in Tampa Bay together was 38-42. If a 0.475 percentage winning record is something to get excited about, then we've got problems. If Snyder thinks hiring Allen and reuniting him with Gruden will win over the fans, and he succeeds in doing so - then its a testament to the stupidity of the fanbase more than anything else.

The point is they won division championships in this decade. We haven't one a division title since 99. Right now, I don't know what this guy is going to do. But, what I do know is that he has had some success in this league. I'm willing to give this guy an opportunity to see what he does. He hasn't been on the job for a day and you're already declaring him a failure.

[MTK]

Vinny needed to go. Time will tell with Allen, but I don't understand how anyone can seriously say they would rather stick with Vinny.

People throw around the word "cancer" too often when referring to players who are bad apples, but in this case I think cancer is a good word to describe what Vinny had become to the Redskins organization.

Yes the move to bring in Sherm Lewis appears to have paid off, but the way the whole thing went down was just pathetic. To strip a head coach of his play calling duties midseason was ridiculous. And on the way out the door he conveniently thanks every coach except for the one he hired. Again, totally ridiculous. When asked if he thought the team had a playoff roster, he said yes, insinuating that Zorn was the one that botched it.

Allen from what I've read is much more personable and is well respected around the league. I think he's going to be a much needed breath of fresh air to the Redskins front office.