Disgusted with Bonds?

[jsarno]

Is anyone else disgusted with Bonds and his run at Aaron? There is no doubt in my mind he is a roid head, and he cheated to get where he is. I think this is a disgrace to baseball, and an insult to a truly great baseball player in Aaron. I know Aaron would never never say anything negative about this cause he's a class act, but he's got to be annoyed with it. He's only 15 away, and he's making me wish something I would never wish on anyone...a career ending injury. I know it's wrong, but the integrity of the sport is in jeopardy...we should not exhault players like Bonds who cheated to get where he is. It's wrong.
What does everyone else think?

[hooskins]

Wrong section, but I guess I am a bit. I dont know what to make of the whole situation. It is very complicated

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Wrong section, but I guess I am a bit. I dont know what to make of the whole situation. It is very complicated

Where should have I started this thread if not here?

How is it complicated? Explain.

[hooskins]

Sports section.

And I dont know, I think I am talking about Bonds and the NOF. Because he was good before he took steroids, and how do y uo know if others didnt take steroids. It is a big mess.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Sports section.

And I dont know, I think I am talking about Bonds and the NOF. Because he was good before he took steroids, and how do y uo know if others didnt take steroids. It is a big mess.

What's NOF? Or did you mean HOF?
But no one else is going for Aaron's record, just Bonds.
Bonds was on his way to being one of the best all around players ever until he took steroids...now I will never count him as the best.
I can see what you are saying cause who knows just how many poeple took roids...but again I say, you don't see Giambi hitting 74 homers (or even 61), or going after Aaron's record...if he was, it would be about him taking roids. This is just like Canseco hitting 40/40 first...I no longer believe he is the first 40/40 player after he admitted to steroids.

[SmootSmack]

I've moved this to Other Sports.

Ideally, you'd like someone like Ken Griffey Jr. to have gotten the record. And A-Rod could end up crushing the record anyway.

However, like Hoo said the general consensus is that whatever Bonds has used he didn't start using until after 1998. And if you cut off his career at that point he'd still be a Hall of Famer.

Furthermore, what he did may have been immoral but he didn't do anything that no one else could have done either. It's not his fault it was available and MLB chose not to test for it. As we've seen in the past couple of years pitchers have probably been the worst offenders of steroids abuse anyway.

The fact that he is a surly person makes it worse for Bonds but he shouldn't be found any more guilty than all those other players of that time that had access to and allegedly abused steroids.

This, to me, is just like the salary cap/revenue sharing issue. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Baseball needs Selig gone

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I've moved this to Other Sports.

Ideally, you'd like someone like Ken Griffey Jr. to have gotten the record. And A-Rod could end up crushing the record anyway.

However, like Hoo said the general consensus is that whatever Bonds has used he didn't start using until after 1998. And if you cut off his career at that point he'd still be a Hall of Famer.

Furthermore, what he did may have been immoral but he didn't do anything that no one else could have done either. It's not his fault it was available and MLB chose not to test for it. As we've seen in the past couple of years pitchers have probably been the worst offenders of steroids abuse anyway.

The fact that he is a surly person makes it worse for Bonds but he shouldn't be found any more guilty than all those other players of that time that had access to and allegedly abused steroids.

This, to me, is just like the salary cap/revenue sharing issue. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Baseball needs Selig gone

There is a flaw in that logic...using steroids has ALWAYS been illegal in baseball. AND it's illegal in the USA. So it's not like "anyone else could have done it". It was illegal to do, and Bonds has disgraced baseball for doing so. Let's keep the issue where it belongs. Yes, I will agree Selig dropped the ball...but you blame the person doing the illegal action, no one else.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

There is a flaw in that logic...using steroids has ALWAYS been illegal in baseball. AND it's illegal in the USA. So it's not like "anyone else could have done it". It was illegal to do, and Bonds has disgraced baseball for doing so. Let's keep the issue where it belongs. Yes, I will agree Selig dropped the ball...but you blame the person doing the illegal action, no one else.

But it wasn't tested for right? And I can't imagine he's the only player to use steroids. And how is what he did necessarily worse than scuffing a ball, or even stealing signs? If someone like Gaylord Perry can be in the HOF, then so can Bonds.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

But it wasn't tested for right?

From what I understand, it was tested for, but it was no secret as to when they tested...beginning of year I beleive.

And I can't imagine he's the only player to use steroids.

Again, not the point. If Giambi was going for the record, I'd say the same thing. We all know he's not the only player to do roids...he's the only one that is going after a covetted record, and a record that is likely the biggest in all of baseball, and could be argued the biggest in all of sports.

And how is what he did necessarily worse than scuffing a ball, or even stealing signs? If someone like Gaylord Perry can be in the HOF, then so can Bonds.

Canseco is not going to the hall because he took roids, and he hit 462 homers, and stole 200 bases...do you know how many people have done that in history? Why not allow him in when he was the first 40/40 player? He is a 6 time all star, a ROY and an MVP, a 4 time silver slugger award winner too. You can't compare scuffing the ball occasionally to taking steroids...or stealing signs...especially since stealing signs is NOT against the MLB rules.

McGwire and Palmiero likely won't make it either due to suspected steroid use. Even though McGwire admitted to taking Andro (which was a legal MLB substance at the time he took it).

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

But it wasn't tested for right? And I can't imagine he's the only player to use steroids. And how is what he did necessarily worse than scuffing a ball, or even stealing signs? If someone like Gaylord Perry can be in the HOF, then so can Bonds.

Everybody does it, so it's ok??? Good call

Besides, look a the fine BIG head he got out of the deal.
I heard on a sports talk show the other day that Hank Aaron apparently attends many baseball events, as a guest, for the good of baseball. They added, that if Bad Barry breaks his record, he will NOT be in attendance. "he will be fishing".

[Daseal]

Baseball lost its integrity a long time ago. Just another drop in the bucket.

[SmootSmack]

But scuffing the ball is against major league rules. And Perry made an entire career out of spitballs, totally illegal. Isn't it?

Let me ask you this though, does it bother you that he used it or that he used it and is going for the record? Suppose he used it and was closing in on 600 homeruns instead would you care?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

But scuffing the ball is against major league rules. And Perry made an entire career out of spitballs, totally illegal. Isn't it?

I am unsure as to the rules at that time (I wasn't born until 75). However, if he did use it as often as you say, and it was against the rules, then I say take him out of the hall.

Let me ask you this though, does it bother you that he used it or that he used it and is going for the record? Suppose he used it and was closing in on 600 homeruns instead would you care?

Yes, it bothers me that they use it. That means some kid busting his butt the legal way won't make it cause someone is doing it the illegal way...however, I am 10 times more upset that he is trying to taint a record, especially such a big time record like the all time homer record. I was upset about it when he hit 600, and now I am irrate that he's going to beat 755.

[SmootSmack]

I am a 1975'er as well. But I vividly remember Perry being kicked out of a game for doctoring the ball back in 1982. And I've heard and read that he'd been doing that for years.

Would it bother you if say Aaron Boone said he was using roids, knowing he's nowhere close to any record?

Baseball is interesting in that it's so numbers oriented. I mean where was the outcry for all the Carolina Panthers found to have ordered roids and HGH during their super bowl year?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I am a 1975'er as well. But I vividly remember Perry being kicked out of a game for doctoring the ball back in 1982. And I've heard and read that he'd been doing that for years.

I guess I was too young to remember that, or other things have pushed it out of my mind. Plus, I was more into football than baseball at that time, and when I was watching baseball, it was only to watch my beloved Sox and Jim Rice.

Would it bother you if say Aaron Boone said he was using roids, knowing he's nowhere close to any record?

I already addressed this and said yes. It just bothers me a LOT worse when a record is going down because of it. You pointed out a Boone...well there is no doubt in my mind his brother Bret took roids, and that bothers me too.

Baseball is interesting in that it's so numbers oriented. I mean where was the outcry for all the Carolina Panthers found to have ordered roids and HGH during their super bowl year?

Well, the Panthers aren't going after an exhaulted record RIGHT NOW. I was upset to hear about the Panthers, but we're talking about Bonds right now.